Maradona - RIP

[olaftab]

I mean Maradona obviously. Quite why some can't accept that not everyone thinks he's the bestest ever is bizarre. 

Absolutely. Especially when the comparison is Messi who has literally been consistently the best player in the world for almost his entire career.

Yup, Messi for me as well, Maradona and Ronaldo tie for second.

Messi despite his club level success has not achieved the same pinnacle as Maradona, Zidane and Ronaldo (European  Champions). The 3 mentioned have literally dragged their Country to win a trophy when their total team was not the best team in the tournament. That is unassailable achievement.

[Ad@m]

I mean Maradona obviously. Quite why some can't accept that not everyone thinks he's the bestest ever is bizarre. 

Absolutely. Especially when the comparison is Messi who has literally been consistently the best player in the world for almost his entire career.

Yup, Messi for me as well, Maradona and Ronaldo tie for second.

Messi despite his club level success has not achieved the same pinnacle as Maradona, Zidane and Ronaldo (European  Champions). The 3 mentioned have literally dragged their Country to win a trophy when their total team was not the best team in the tournament. That is unassailable achievement.

Edit - ignore me! Completely misread the post!

[PeterWithe]

I mean Maradona obviously. Quite why some can't accept that not everyone thinks he's the bestest ever is bizarre. 

Absolutely. Especially when the comparison is Messi who has literally been consistently the best player in the world for almost his entire career.

Yup, Messi for me as well, Maradona and Ronaldo tie for second.

Messi despite his club level success has not achieved the same pinnacle as Maradona, Zidane and Ronaldo (European  Champions). The 3 mentioned have literally dragged their Country to win a trophy when their total team was not the best team in the tournament. That is unassailable achievement.

I understand the argument and thats why I'd put Ronaldo at the same level as Maradona, he did almost the same but for Portugal. I just dont think the pinnacle you refer to is international football anymore. Its club football, where Messi stands above them. And thats why Messi bests them both. So there.

His star has burnt just as bright as Maradona's, but for far longer.

[PeterWithesShin]

I mean Maradona obviously. Quite why some can't accept that not everyone thinks he's the bestest ever is bizarre. 

I guess for the same reason as you can't accept that he's the bestest ever.

I'm not the one on this thread telling people their opinion is wrong about him. You are.

[Dante Lavelli]

The quality of club football exceed international football by some distance but I’m not sure it is the best measure of ‘the best player’ as the most successful clubs just buy/accumulate the best players.  The last club that was dragged up by an individual was probably........

I’d say Napoli and Maradona (I’ve not given this much thought but he’d be up there, I’m sure).

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

Channel 4 tonight at 9.30 will be showing Asif Kapadias 2019 biopic "Diego Maradona".

Mark Kermode review here.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/jun/16/diego-maradona-review-gripping-documentary

[Astnor]

Channel 4 tonight at 9.30 will be showing Asif Kapadias 2019 biopic "Diego Maradona".

Mark Kermode review here.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/jun/16/diego-maradona-review-gripping-documentary

I have seen this recently ( once and then the first part again ...). Took a hold on me. Its documentary/ composed of real life movieclips and the intro scenes / scenes where he are presented as a new player at Napoli are a bit beyond belief.

[Ads]

I only ever saw him play in the 94 World Cup, so I don't think a 34 year old Maradona, in the condition he was, was really the best way to judge him or his abilities. His feats with Argentina and Napoli occurred long before and it perhaps serves only to compare the likes of Messi and Ronaldo who are at that age now, yet still claim with comfort as being the best players in the world. As they have been for more than a decade.

Their utter professionalism and dedication to their genius craft, perhaps separates them from Maradona in the pantheon of greats. But its easier to romanticise a flawed genius, the best player to ever play for our club fits this category.

I'm interested in the Hand of God and cheat angle in so much as people saying those who clutch to it should let it go. I'm not sure Maradona would have agreed. I think he would find it funny and find it part of what makes football so brilliant.

While I personally don't care about a game that happened before I was born, I don't think people should move on and I cannot fathom the cold and calculated logic or the almost tediously Corinthian attitude of those who say otherwise. That's not football.

Football is an emotionally driven game. Its what compels us to follow it, not for that sense of "well done chap" but for the endless angst, joy and schadenfreude.

Move on? No thank you. I still grumble that Vidic ought to have walked. That Enklemen never touched it and it was only because the Orcs were on the pitch that Ellery bottled it and...

Get over it? Tell that to Paul Breitner. Tell it to Alan Brazil. Tell it to the Gerodies who wait for us outside St James' Park. Tell it to any Villa fan who doesn't chuckle at the bitterness of the aforementioned or the shadow dwellers who occupy a B post code.

Deep down we know it's all superficial and there's more that binds us than divides us, at least as fans. And perhaps that's where Maradona differs from the vast separation there is between you or I and Messi?

That connection he had with the people. That he would, just like us, lean over a barrier giving some colourful language to the opposition or have to be held back by his daughter from falling out his box such was his emotion every time he was at La Bombonera. Some people, their personality, its just lightning in a bottle and the game needs their heroes as much as their villains. Sometimes people are both.

[Astnor]

That post from Ads. Very good reading. Explaining the unexplainable. Thnks.

[Monty]

I agree with that Ads. I would, however, add to that by saying in the same way, I hate the sanitising of footballers as if they have to be squeaky-clean, image-massaged publicity entities like politicians. We love football, even though it's objectively silly to care this much, because it has these rough edges. I remember years ago on the Graun pod, after the Valencia-Inter mass brawl, Barry Glendenning saying 'I know people always want to say "a disgrace to the game" etc, well, I thought it was great, a big old fight.'

It's in this way that, despite it being the act of a massive cheating bastard, I kind of love the utter shameless cheek of the handball and the defence of it. Like I kind of love utter arseholes like Sergio Ramos. Or the ungentlemanly (but hilarious) ways in which our Jack ensures that he doesn't need to dive, because he knows how to make some hapless clogger foul him at will. And so, while I agree that I couldn't do without that irrational passion that bears the grudges in football, I think too much emphasis on 'cheating' and the like risks taking another step towards cementing what Barney Ronay referred to the other day as modern football's 'germ-free' environment. Give me Maradona over that any day.

[thick_mike]

I really would recommend the Diego Maradonna documentary on C4 tonight to everyone. If you think he’s just a cheating Argie bastard, not as good as...(insert your favourite clogger here), or just the greatest; I guarantee you will understand him and his genius/demons a little better.

[Sexual Ealing]

I agree with that Ads. I would, however, add to that by saying in the same way, I hate the sanitising of footballers as if they have to be squeaky-clean, image-massaged publicity entities like politicians. We love football, even though it's objectively silly to care this much, because it has these rough edges. I remember years ago on the Graun pod, after the Valencia-Inter mass brawl, Barry Glendenning saying 'I know people always want to say "a disgrace to the game" etc, well, I thought it was great, a big old fight.'

It's in this way that, despite it being the act of a massive cheating bastard, I kind of love the utter shameless cheek of the handball and the defence of it. Like I kind of love utter arseholes like Sergio Ramos. Or the ungentlemanly (but hilarious) ways in which our Jack ensures that he doesn't need to dive, because he knows how to make some hapless clogger foul him at will. And so, while I agree that I couldn't do without that irrational passion that bears the grudges in football, I think too much emphasis on 'cheating' and the like risks taking another step towards cementing what Barney Ronay referred to the other day as modern football's 'germ-free' environment. Give me Maradona over that any day.

100% this.

[Risso]

I mostly can't stand the England football team, so the Hand of God incident really doesn't bother me any more.  Years and years of shit England managers, arsehole players and under performing in tournaments has done for my interest if I'm honest.  It's re-awakened a little bit now with Jack and Tyrone in the teams, but I only watch when they're playing,  and even that that has been tarnished a bit with the utter bellendery from Southgate.

[olaftab]

I mean Maradona obviously. Quite why some can't accept that not everyone thinks he's the bestest ever is bizarre. 

I guess for the same reason as you can't accept that he's the bestest ever.

I'm not the one on this thread telling people their opinion is wrong about him. You are.

Where did I do that?

[dave shelley]

Pleased to see you back Ads.