Emi Martinez

[LeonW]

It’s amazing that as soon as one of our players simply whispers CL or indicates anything resembling professional ambition, that there is immediate reaction amongst some that he must be off. I suppose it’s what happens when players have left us that immediately triggers a fear that we no longer can hang on to anyone. It has made us really fragile as a fan base and as a club.

History has conditioned us as a fan base. And until we finally keep hold of our best players it will continue.

[Toronto Villa]

It’s amazing that as soon as one of our players simply whispers CL or indicates anything resembling professional ambition, that there is immediate reaction amongst some that he must be off. I suppose it’s what happens when players have left us that immediately triggers a fear that we no longer can hang on to anyone. It has made us really fragile as a fan base and as a club.

History has conditioned us as a fan base. And until we finally keep hold of our best players it will continue.

But there will always be a hierarchy. We will always have a chance to lose our best players to a club higher up the chain. And it happens to even the biggest sides that a bigger fish comes by. Without anything substantial to back it up it just seems that as a fan base we are more affected than others. Was Dwight Yorke the one that stung the most that started all of this off?

[LeonW]

It’s amazing that as soon as one of our players simply whispers CL or indicates anything resembling professional ambition, that there is immediate reaction amongst some that he must be off. I suppose it’s what happens when players have left us that immediately triggers a fear that we no longer can hang on to anyone. It has made us really fragile as a fan base and as a club.

History has conditioned us as a fan base. And until we finally keep hold of our best players it will continue.

But there will always be a hierarchy. We will always have a chance to lose our best players to a club higher up the chain. And it happens to even the biggest sides that a bigger fish comes by. Without anything substantial to back it up it just seems that as a fan base we are more affected than others. Was Dwight Yorke the one that stung the most that started all of this off?

True, there’s always a hierarchy. And every player has a price. But I would say the following:

• we always seem to be ill prepared for a key player departure.
• I think a lot of the angst is caused by us not having clarity as to where we really are as club - and that is a decades old problem.

Doug would always pretend that we were competing with the elite, particularly around season ticket time, and often do the minimum amount to keep those hopes alive.

I get the same vibe from our current hierarchy.  “We’ll push the boat out if a top player becomes available.” And “It’s about being sustainable.”

I think if the club were more honest about its intentions it would help managed expectations  accordingly. Supporters will be with the club through thick and thin, but sometimes I think when business people get involved, they think they need to sell a dream without understanding that people will stand in the rain and cold in a city miles away, knowing they won’t get home until 1am, but still do it anyway. But be honest about what we’re trying to achieve and how, which I don’t think has been forthcoming from Doug, Randy, Dr Tony and the current ownership. O’Dreary said we were fickle but I often think the truth is that we just haven’t had enough honesty about intentions which leads to confusion.

[Toronto Villa]

Our failure has always been how we replaced our best players. I think overall we have got great prices for our best players when they have moved on. Or at least it hasn’t felt that we’d been fleeced. But every time we sold a Yorke, Barry,  Delph, Benteke, Grealish etc, we’ve fucked up the next critical phase. All teams have player turnover for one reason or another. The most successful teams just deal with it the best.

[Rory]

Our failure has always been how we replaced our best players. I think overall we have got great prices for our best players when they have moved on. Or at least it hasn’t felt that we’d been fleeced. But every time we sold a Yorke, Barry,  Delph, Benteke, Grealish etc, we’ve fucked up the next critical phase. All teams have player turnover for one reason or another. The most successful teams just deal with it the best.

Agreed, TV.

If Martinez wants to leave and as long as somebody pays (significantly above) his value, that isn't necessarily a failure. I'm not enthused about it but it's business. He's the best goalkeeper in the world, and until we become the biggest club in Europe, media speculation is going to happen.

Buying a player, getting three good seasons out of them, then selling them for twice what we paid is a good model. We just need to make sure we reinvest every penny we get in a wise manner. That's the bit that concerns me.

[LeonW]

Our failure has always been how we replaced our best players. I think overall we have got great prices for our best players when they have moved on. Or at least it hasn’t felt that we’d been fleeced. But every time we sold a Yorke, Barry,  Delph, Benteke, Grealish etc, we’ve fucked up the next critical phase. All teams have player turnover for one reason or another. The most successful teams just deal with it the best.

Agreed, TV.

If Martinez wants to leave and as long as somebody pays (significantly above) his value, that isn't necessarily a failure. I'm not enthused about it but it's business. He's the best goalkeeper in the world, and until we become the biggest club in Europe, media speculation is going to happen.

Buying a player, getting three good seasons out of them, then selling them for twice what we paid is a good model. We just need to make sure we reinvest every penny we get in a wise manner. That's the bit that concerns me.

Our model for replacing like with like always doesn’t work as history shows.

[Rory]

Our failure has always been how we replaced our best players. I think overall we have got great prices for our best players when they have moved on. Or at least it hasn’t felt that we’d been fleeced. But every time we sold a Yorke, Barry,  Delph, Benteke, Grealish etc, we’ve fucked up the next critical phase. All teams have player turnover for one reason or another. The most successful teams just deal with it the best.

Agreed, TV.

If Martinez wants to leave and as long as somebody pays (significantly above) his value, that isn't necessarily a failure. I'm not enthused about it but it's business. He's the best goalkeeper in the world, and until we become the biggest club in Europe, media speculation is going to happen.

Buying a player, getting three good seasons out of them, then selling them for twice what we paid is a good model. We just need to make sure we reinvest every penny we get in a wise manner. That's the bit that concerns me.

Our model for replacing like with like always doesn’t work as history shows.

I quite agree, Leon. That's what we need to change.

[LeonW]

Our failure has always been how we replaced our best players. I think overall we have got great prices for our best players when they have moved on. Or at least it hasn’t felt that we’d been fleeced. But every time we sold a Yorke, Barry,  Delph, Benteke, Grealish etc, we’ve fucked up the next critical phase. All teams have player turnover for one reason or another. The most successful teams just deal with it the best.

Agreed, TV.

If Martinez wants to leave and as long as somebody pays (significantly above) his value, that isn't necessarily a failure. I'm not enthused about it but it's business. He's the best goalkeeper in the world, and until we become the biggest club in Europe, media speculation is going to happen.

Buying a player, getting three good seasons out of them, then selling them for twice what we paid is a good model. We just need to make sure we reinvest every penny we get in a wise manner. That's the bit that concerns me.

Our model for replacing like with like always doesn’t work as history shows.

I quite agree, Leon. That's what we need to change.

100%.

[Dante Lavelli]

Our failure has always been how we replaced our best players. I think overall we have got great prices for our best players when they have moved on. Or at least it hasn’t felt that we’d been fleeced. But every time we sold a Yorke, Barry,  Delph, Benteke, Grealish etc, we’ve fucked up the next critical phase. All teams have player turnover for one reason or another. The most successful teams just deal with it the best.

I agree with this.

The structure of the club should mean that the planning can happen at Lange’s level whilst it is a flat ‘not for sales’ from Emery and the players.

[Risso]

One of the plus points we've got at the moment is that we can point to Martinez when trying to sign other world class players. When Martinez is insinuating that we're not advanced enough for him, and issues a thinly-veiled "come and get me" statement, it doesn't scream of an ambitious club.

[AV82EC]

Which begs the question could we player trade our way up the League like Spurs did in the early part of the last decade? It’s never been good enough for a trophy but they’re now comfortably sat at the top table.

My biggest concern and I’m with Risso on this I don’t feel there’s enough Sporting Director/CEO top level football knowledge to get us where we want to be. I’m unconvinced by Lange operating at an elite European level, and Purslow is a star fucker on the Football side and has been pretty poor on the commercial side imv so far.

At the end of the season we’re five years into NSWE project, if I was Nas/Wes I’d be looking at my executive team and saying not good enough.

[Dave]

He will be off and so will Kamara and anyone else with realistic ambitions to win anything because we never move forwards at a quick enough pace for the modern game. Jam tomorrow.

Yet we signed them both.

Risso has covered Martinez, and Kamara - we identified a player that we thought was really good and offered him a more lucrative contract than anyone else was prepared to.

Something we've decided we were too noble and Corinthian to do in January.

[Villan82]

One of the plus points we've got at the moment is that we can point to Martinez when trying to sign other world class players. When Martinez is insinuating that we're not advanced enough for him, and issues a thinly-veiled "come and get me" statement, it doesn't scream of an ambitious club.

Summer 2018. One of the darkest in our history. After Ellis underachieved, Lerner managed to relegate us after a 30 year stint we then got Xia who almost finished us off.

These owners saved the club and my sympathy and gratitude is with them not players who  use us and ditch us.

[Dave]

These owners saved the club and my sympathy and gratitude is with them not players who  use us and ditch us.

We use and ditch every player who we decide isn't someone we need, why would players be expected to behave differently?

[Smithy]

He will be off and so will Kamara and anyone else with realistic ambitions to win anything because we never move forwards at a quick enough pace for the modern game. Jam tomorrow.

Yet we signed them both.

Risso has covered Martinez, and Kamara - we identified a player that we thought was really good and offered him a more lucrative contract than anyone else was prepared to.

Something we've decided we were too noble and Corinthian to do in January.

I don't think that's entirely fair.  Kamara was out of contract and so his club had zero say in whether he came to us or not.  And Emi had been told by his club they couldn't guarantee him number one status so they agreed to let him go (without realising how good he could be). We did brilliantly to sign both of them, but regardless of the wages we offered, neither of those players is joining us in the January when their clubs STILL have things to fight for.

January was massively disappointing, but I simply don't see a bad January window as a sign the club has "given up". A bad summer transfer window where the club doesn't really spend anything? Absolutely, that's far more indicative, I think - but I don't see it happening.  We might be underwhelmed with the signings, but whether the manager has been backed, or not, will be the key.