Emi Martinez

[Footy-Vill]

I don't like the gamesmanship, but if we didn't do it  we would be at a huge disadvantage.
What I find most irritating is the blatant professional foul which at worst gets a booking.
If a player is going through on goal I want to see what happens, not a free kick.
I think they should bring in a sin bin for these situations. Or a straight red.

You don't like the gamesmanship?  Every team has it in them.  Fernandez gave it some at the weekend the Poundshop shithouser that he is. You see players going down now for the slightest of contacts with the sole purpose of gaining some advantage. It's infuriating most of the time but increasingly it's part of the game.

I agree it does not mean that that I like it.

I don't agree and I don't like it as it morally wrong but have to accept how immoral behaviour is not going to always be punished immediately.

Its actually great to have a varied view on this and allow us all to have that without suggesting anything untoward about people posting their take on how Emi conducts himself.

[Footy-Vill]

The better goalkeepers tend to be a bit tapped. And the better/ more competitive players often play on the edge.

Emi illustrates both.

It's also a long-established part of Argentinian sporting culture to not just indulge in the dark arts but celebrate them. It's not viewed with the same disdain as here.

That's correct and it's the very reason why Maradonna's hand of God goal is celebrated like it is.

That's a very good point, KG, and it helps to explain things to my understanding of Martinez behaviour on the pitch.
I do feel he has evolved somewhat into quite a character.
Clearly, he's a winner, and we must all accept his good and bad qualities because he's a match saver, leader, and a very passionate person who only ehances our ability to win football matches when he's on the pitch.

What 'bad qualities'?

Oh come on, the guy's a complete knobhead.  An utter prick.  What he does is about 1/16th inch away from cheating.


Though personally, when it comes to goalkeepers, I think that's exactly what you want.

It's exactly what we need. It's not a bad quality to have, he plays within the rules (albeit with the occasional Yellow Card  for a minor infringement of wasting time) so he's good. 

In discussion we've been made aware by Kevin Gage that this behaviour is cultural in nature, it is easier to comprehend why people or players behave in such an obnoxious and uneducated manner. It's not as simply as labelling all Argentinians as the same as it is with any nationality but adds to the understanding why Martinez conducted himself the way he did in order to win.

For those for such behaviour then consider opponents players or managers and for when Villa lose and have received or had to witness the display of same type of behavior. Are you so embracing or when our team have to suffer?
No so its hypocritical to praise that type of winning behaviour so quickly unless it is customary in your culture your only doing it because he plays for Villa. There's a bigger picture.

Even if it gets Villa good results or outcomes, I doubt I will ever be able to align myself with a seemingly greater good ideal by some in football because that contradicts true sporting ethics and attitude. Instead, I will try to promote on his playing skills and characteristics in games to see how they help or hurt our team.

[Risso]

Alright Mother Theresa, we get the message.

[kippaxvilla2]

Bosnich.  For this alone.  End of discussion.

https://youtu.be/1hZWlwq9dWw

[Clark W Griswold]

It's pretty simple really, we're Villa fans so we'll comment on our players from our perspective, i.e. i thought Martinez was acting like a bit of a tit but it probably helped us get the win over the line so fine with us. We can then comment on Arsenal v Tottenham as a neutral fan and comment on that accordingly, picking a side that we felt was in the right or wrong. That's just the way it is, it's not being 2 faced but it's just looking at something from a different viewpoint.

And yes, i agree with those that think we've been too nice for too long anyway and it makes a refreshing change for one of ours to be (kind of) the aggressor.

[paul_e]

In discussion we've been made aware by Kevin Gage that this behaviour is cultural in nature, it is easier to comprehend why people or players behave in such an obnoxious and uneducated manner. It's not as simply as labelling all Argentinians as the same as it is with any nationality but adds to the understanding why Martinez conducted himself the way he did in order to win.

For those for such behaviour then consider opponents players or managers and for when Villa lose and have received or had to witness the display of same type of behavior. Are you so embracing or when our team have to suffer?
No so its hypocritical to praise that type of winning behaviour so quickly unless it is customary in your culture your only doing it because he plays for Villa. There's a bigger picture.

Even if it gets Villa good results or outcomes, I doubt I will ever be able to align myself with a seemingly greater good ideal by some in football because that contradicts true sporting ethics and attitude. Instead, I will try to promote on his playing skills and characteristics in games to see how they help or hurt our team.

Welcome to being a sports fan, hypocrisy is a fundamental part of the experience.

More broadly almost every genuinely great team in history (not limited to football) has a few players that tread the line on sportsmanship, you don't have to like it but you do have to accept that it is, and always has been, part of top level sport.

EDIT: Also you may want to look into Ashley Young a bit more because he's never been shy to take advantage of a chance to stretch the rules but oddly you don't mention it on his thread every few days.

[Drummond]

In discussion we've been made aware by Kevin Gage that this behaviour is cultural in nature, it is easier to comprehend why people or players behave in such an obnoxious and uneducated manner. It's not as simply as labelling all Argentinians as the same as it is with any nationality but adds to the understanding why Martinez conducted himself the way he did in order to win.

For those for such behaviour then consider opponents players or managers and for when Villa lose and have received or had to witness the display of same type of behavior. Are you so embracing or when our team have to suffer?
No so its hypocritical to praise that type of winning behaviour so quickly unless it is customary in your culture your only doing it because he plays for Villa. There's a bigger picture.

Even if it gets Villa good results or outcomes, I doubt I will ever be able to align myself with a seemingly greater good ideal by some in football because that contradicts true sporting ethics and attitude. Instead, I will try to promote on his playing skills and characteristics in games to see how they help or hurt our team.

The issue is that over the years we've had plenty of good players who are jolly good sports and play the game etc.

As has been said, we need winners, and winners will do whatever it takes to win, including pushing boundaries.

I embrace it all, of course I get frustrated when Fernandez dives, or when Ramsdale gives it the big 'un, when Man City surround the referee, when Zaha moans and moans and moans. That's part of the experience and the enjoyment.

When I play 5-a-side (fuck me I talk about that a lot) then there are players on both sides claiming free-kicks, encroachment into the area, pushing and shoving etc. It's part of the sport and enjoyment of it.

We've got a bona-fide winner, not just in attitude but in winning the biggest competition in the world. His behaviour and attitude was a huge part of that success. If even a small part of that translates into more points on the board for the Villa then I'm all for it. No longer will we be the plucky losers; we need the attitude that comes with winning, the swagger, bravado, and attitude that separates us from the rest.

[Flamingo Lane]

I must admit, I'm no fan of Martinez's blatant time wasting, or any other of our players doing it for that matter, for the simple reason that I don't actually think that blatant time wasting is a particularly productive or effective form of 'game management', whereas slowing a game down in order to disrupt the opposition's flow (mainly by keeping careful possession of the ball, preferably in the opposition's half) can be.

[Brend'Watkins]

I must admit, I'm no fan of Martinez's blatant time wasting, or any other of our players doing it for that matter, for the simple reason that I don't actually think that blatant time wasting is a particularly productive or effective form of 'game management', whereas slowing a game down in order to disrupt the opposition's flow (mainly by keeping careful possession of the ball, preferably in the opposition's half) can be.

Taking the sting out of the game is it's purpose so it can be effective sometimes. If it was ineffective players would be instructed to cut it out.  Keeping careful possession is desirable but less achievable when the opposition is chasing the game and putting the pressure on making mistakes more likely.  The really good teams are better at it of course because they have the better players.

[paul_e]

I must admit, I'm no fan of Martinez's blatant time wasting, or any other of our players doing it for that matter, for the simple reason that I don't actually think that blatant time wasting is a particularly productive or effective form of 'game management', whereas slowing a game down in order to disrupt the opposition's flow (mainly by keeping careful possession of the ball, preferably in the opposition's half) can be.

Taking the sting out of the game is it's purpose so it can be effective sometimes. If it was ineffective players would be instructed to cut it out.  Keeping careful possession is desirable but less achievable when the opposition is chasing the game and putting the pressure on making mistakes more likely.  The really good teams are better at it of course because they have the better players.

I think the impact it has on opposition players is important as well. A few times this season we've seen teams get really agitated and start moaning at the ref, etc, which just shows that we've got them a bit wound up and, for a lot of players, that impacts the quality of their decision making. If you watch teams like Man City when they lose games it's almost always because they lose their cool and stop playing their normal game.

[Risso]

I'm sure we'd all like to go back to the days where players didn't dive, simulate injury and waste time. But Pandora's Box of Cheating is well and truly open, so you either take a moral stance and give the opposition a massive advantage, or you push it as far as possible to fight fire, with fire.

[GordonCowansisthegreatest]

We need to start seeing red/yellow cards for simulation for *diving/cheating and then see if they get overturned by VAR, then it may start to cut it out.

[Footy-Vill]

Martinez for captain following McGinn's injury-related fly me away stunt.
Emi travels by plane for good reason, as McGinn begrudingky said Martinez does not drink alcohol and kept his fitness up while celebrating the World Cup victory. That's great professionalism and leadership, so yeah, if we bring in Guendouzi or another midfielder, McGinn isn't the best choice to be captain, whereas Martinez, despite some disagreeable antics, should be made captain permanently.

[Clampy]

What stunt has he pulled Footy?

[Footy-Vill]

I don't want to go on but he flew to Dublin while he's recivering from a hamstring injury.