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Author Topic: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)  (Read 141875 times)

Online Allan C

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1545 on: January 26, 2022, 02:42:29 PM »
I love Ollie. He's a grafter and never gives up even when he's having a mare.  Most exciting striker i've seen down Villa Park since Dwight Yorke.
People should stop making comparisons with Yorke because more often than not the end result was a goal with him

Offline Smithy

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1546 on: January 26, 2022, 02:56:34 PM »
I love Ollie. He's a grafter and never gives up even when he's having a mare.  Most exciting striker i've seen down Villa Park since Dwight Yorke.
People should stop making comparisons with Yorke because more often than not the end result was a goal with him

Yorke was a brilliant player for us, a unique talent, and a scorer of great goals - and he brought a lot more to the team than just his goals, but he was a VERY different player to Ollie, apart from the fact they were both forwards.   

However, Yorke's best-ever league goals total for us was 17, twice, in the years we finished 4th and 5th.   Ollie got 14 in a team that finished 11th. Plus those disallowed by VAR that would have counted in any other year.

Ollie isn't close to the level Yorke was at his best for us, but let's not rewrite history to make out Yorke was some sort of unstoppable goal machine.

I think Ollie would beat Yorke's best goal-scoring year in the league if we were challenging for the top 4, but he'll never be the sort of entertaining 'get-off-your-seat' player that Yorke was.

Offline Risso

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1547 on: January 26, 2022, 03:13:41 PM »
Carew was miles better than Watkins.

Online Allan C

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1548 on: January 26, 2022, 03:25:35 PM »
I love Ollie. He's a grafter and never gives up even when he's having a mare.  Most exciting striker i've seen down Villa Park since Dwight Yorke.
People should stop making comparisons with Yorke because more often than not the end result was a goal with him

Yorke was a brilliant player for us, a unique talent, and a scorer of great goals - and he brought a lot more to the team than just his goals, but he was a VERY different player to Ollie, apart from the fact they were both forwards.   

However, Yorke's best-ever league goals total for us was 17, twice, in the years we finished 4th and 5th.   Ollie got 14 in a team that finished 11th. Plus those disallowed by VAR that would have counted in any other year.

Ollie isn't close to the level Yorke was at his best for us, but let's not rewrite history to make out Yorke was some sort of unstoppable goal machine.

I think Ollie would beat Yorke's best goal-scoring year in the league if we were challenging for the top 4, but he'll never be the sort of entertaining 'get-off-your-seat' player that Yorke was.

I personally wasnít talking about his goal scoring although I thought that was pretty good, more the excitement level when he got the ball. That usually ended in a goal for us

Offline Smithy

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1549 on: January 26, 2022, 03:33:27 PM »
Carew was miles better than Watkins.

But again, Carew never scored as many league goals as Ollie did last year, and Carew played in a side that finished much higher and has wingers constantly chucking balls in for him to attack.  I'm not disagreeing with your point about who is/was the better player.  Just that goals AND contribution to the team effort have to factor into it when it comes to assessing forwards, in the same way that goals alone counts against players like Keinan Davis.

I think Ollie can be a great player for us, even in the 12-14 league goal a season range, as long as his efforts leading the line are contributing to us getting goals from elsewhere in the team.  Man City walked the league last year and no one got more than 13 league goals for them. Chelsea finished 4th and qualified for the champions league and their top league scorer got 7 goals (and he was the penalty taker).

A 20+ goal a season striker would be amazing, and I'd LOVE us to have one, but they're incredibly rare, and you really don't "need" one to be successful in the modern game.  If your set-up is such that your attacking play means any one of five players could be on the end of an attacking move (as it seems with us right now), then I'd be perfectly happy seeing the main striker with 10-12 goals, and the other supporting attacking players getting 3 or 4 more each across the season.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 03:35:19 PM by Smithy »

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1550 on: January 26, 2022, 07:55:42 PM »
On his day Carew was unplayable.

Online brontebilly

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1551 on: January 26, 2022, 08:33:20 PM »
On his day Carew was unplayable.

Same could be said of Watkins...Liverpool and Arsenal last season for example. Carew was a cult hero for sure and on his day brilliant. But he was in and out of the team for various reasons at times. Watkins for his first season in the league/with us performed in the main brilliantly. Hardly missed a minute for us either.

Yorke was different class. He didn't have a player remotely in Grealish's class for laying on opportunities like Watkins had last season either. My rose tinted glasses are telling me Yorke laid on plenty of goals for Savo and others in his time but perhaps the stats tell a different tale?

Online paul_e

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1552 on: January 26, 2022, 09:09:39 PM »
Carew was miles better than Watkins.

But again, Carew never scored as many league goals as Ollie did last year, and Carew played in a side that finished much higher and has wingers constantly chucking balls in for him to attack.  I'm not disagreeing with your point about who is/was the better player.  Just that goals AND contribution to the team effort have to factor into it when it comes to assessing forwards, in the same way that goals alone counts against players like Keinan Davis.

I think Ollie can be a great player for us, even in the 12-14 league goal a season range, as long as his efforts leading the line are contributing to us getting goals from elsewhere in the team.  Man City walked the league last year and no one got more than 13 league goals for them. Chelsea finished 4th and qualified for the champions league and their top league scorer got 7 goals (and he was the penalty taker).

A 20+ goal a season striker would be amazing, and I'd LOVE us to have one, but they're incredibly rare, and you really don't "need" one to be successful in the modern game.  If your set-up is such that your attacking play means any one of five players could be on the end of an attacking move (as it seems with us right now), then I'd be perfectly happy seeing the main striker with 10-12 goals, and the other supporting attacking players getting 3 or 4 more each across the season.

pretty much this, I think you have to judge the attack as a unit when it comes to goals, if the mix of Watkins, Ings, Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey and Traore get 35-40 and we get 20ish from the rest of the team then we'll be in the mix for Europe. Our problem right now is that the whole group is behind on that target, goals from defence and midfield are fine though and I suspect we'll make that 20 easily.

Offline Risso

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1553 on: January 26, 2022, 09:31:59 PM »

pretty much this, I think you have to judge the attack as a unit when it comes to goals, if the mix of Watkins, Ings, Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey and Traore get 35-40 and we get 20ish from the rest of the team then we'll be in the mix for Europe. Our problem right now is that the whole group is behind on that target, goals from defence and midfield are fine though and I suspect we'll make that 20 easily.

Hmmm, no so sure.

The forwards are really going to have to go some to get anywhere near that. So far with 21 games out of 38 down, as a bunch they're on 14. Even to get the low end of that estimate (35), they would need 21 goals out of 17 games. I reckon Watkins will end up on about 9 or 10, so 4 or 5 more, Coutinho could get half a dozen maybe when up to speed, and Buendia another 3 or 4. Obviously Bailey is anuknown at this stage depending on if/when he's fit again.

The problem area is midfield. 3 each for McGinn and Ramsey, and that's it. Not too bad for them personally, but we could do with the midfield as a whole at least doubling that. It's why we need that holding midfielder, to let the attacking midfielders (and the other forwards) do a lot more attacking.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 10:07:36 PM by Risso »

Online john e

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1554 on: January 26, 2022, 09:46:40 PM »
thereís a lot of good things to admire about Watkins, his work ethic, heís good for a few goals every season, good team player, and as others have said on his day he can be a real handful

my biggest worry about him being a top 6 sort of striker is his touch
itís not very good and itís not something you particularly learn itís something you either have or donít
Sure you can improve on it but you know what I mean


Offline adrenachrome

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1555 on: January 26, 2022, 10:31:30 PM »
thereís a lot of good things to admire about Watkins, his work ethic, heís good for a few goals every season, good team player, and as others have said on his day he can be a real handful

my biggest worry about him being a top 6 sort of striker is his touch
itís not very good and itís not something you particularly learn itís something you either have or donít
Sure you can improve on it but you know what I mean



I agree, but his first touch for the most recent chance was immaculate.

It's what followed the the touch. I'm beginning to sound like a character in Seinfeld, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. 

Offline olaftab

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1556 on: January 26, 2022, 11:14:21 PM »
 
Lukaku has 5 league goals in 11 starts. That very obviously isn't a similar ratio to 5 goals in 17 starts.
He has played 16 League games this season. 5 of those as subs. Has scored 5 goal including 3 in 2 games against us.

Romelu Lukaku stats
Soccer player
CHELSEA
Premier League
Year  2021/22
Matches 16
Goals    5
Assists  0
Yellow   0
Red      0


Offline edgysatsuma89

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1557 on: January 27, 2022, 12:07:40 AM »
Lukaku has 5 league goals in 11 starts. That very obviously isn't a similar ratio to 5 goals in 17 starts.
He has played 16 League games this season. 5 of those as subs. Has scored 5 goal including 3 in 2 games against us.

Romelu Lukaku stats
Soccer player
CHELSEA
Premier League
Year  2021/22
Matches 16
Goals    5
Assists  0
Yellow   0
Red      0

That hasn't added anything as Risso has already stated it was 11 starts. The whole Lukaku comparison is pointless anyway.

Offline olaftab

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1558 on: January 27, 2022, 12:19:54 AM »
Except he hasnít and comparison is not pointless. One of Lukakuís 5 goals was against us as a second half sub. So 4 in 11 starts and only 5 in 16 totally comparable to Watkins 5 in 17 and all that for nearly £100M.

Offline aldridgeboy

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Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1559 on: January 27, 2022, 12:50:49 AM »
I love Ollie. He's a grafter and never gives up even when he's having a mare.  Most exciting striker i've seen down Villa Park since Dwight Yorke.
People should stop making comparisons with Yorke because more often than not the end result was a goal with him

Yorke was a brilliant player for us, a unique talent, and a scorer of great goals - and he brought a lot more to the team than just his goals, but he was a VERY different player to Ollie, apart from the fact they were both forwards.   

However, Yorke's best-ever league goals total for us was 17, twice, in the years we finished 4th and 5th.   Ollie got 14 in a team that finished 11th. Plus those disallowed by VAR that would have counted in any other year.

Ollie isn't close to the level Yorke was at his best for us, but let's not rewrite history to make out Yorke was some sort of unstoppable goal machine.

I think Ollie would beat Yorke's best goal-scoring year in the league if we were challenging for the top 4, but he'll never be the sort of entertaining 'get-off-your-seat' player that Yorke was.

I think thats a great summary

 


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