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Author Topic: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"  (Read 4586 times)

Offline RamboandBruno

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #120 on: July 13, 2020, 07:58:11 AM »
Fear of not getting one's perceived fair share of scarce resources may be an inbuilt human trait, but it's got bugger all to do with the colour of a person's skin.  How many different races do you think prehistoric man tended to see?

larf. its fear of difference. Are you saying people who want the poles to  go back to Europe aren't racist because they have white skin?

I don't think anyone would suggest that.

I'd suggest that a toddler called Smith would be unlikely to have an innate fear of one called Kowalski.

If an adult, adolescent or, as in the case that started this thread, slightly older child was constantly being told that Polish people were untrustworthy, violent, dangerous, or any other unwanted trait you care to name, then they might dislike the adult Kowalksi.

Prejudice is learned, not genetic.

I disagree. Yes, a child taught that polish people have those characteristics by his parents could possibly grow up disliking them but not necessarily. Plenty of people around who's parents are a bit that way, but their offspring aren't, but  would a 5 year old with no experience of family anti-polish bias find a polish schoolmate who spoke bad english, ate different food etc strange or different? I think they would, and that polish child  would possibly experience bullying that had nothing to do with the bully's parents or upbringing.

I had to go to sleep in the middle of all this last night. But looking at it with a freshish pair of eyes, it seems to me your mixing up, purposely, or otherwise, theories around survival of the fittest, particularly with references to mankind 50 million years ago and the fact in your eyes weíre all inherently racist. I donít know what your politics are and itís none of my business but itís the kind Of right wing rhetoric thatís been bandied round by the tories subtlety or less so these days for generations, e.g. your poor because your lazy and work shy, not because your life chances are limited from the start in this country because of the post code you grow up under or the colour of your skin. Your wealthy because you deserve to be, not because in this country largely your white, male and middle class or upwards.
What the tories never want to understand is the community is just as much a human trait, you can see it in football when such disparate groups of people come together under the banner of their club.
Even within all of the above your arguments make no sense, your analogy of kids seeing other kids, say poles and seeing their different and not liking that difference, may happen but equally kids may be inquisitive and want to find out about the difference. Both my primary and secondary schools had a mix of West Indian and white Irish descent kids and itís interesting that there was no or little racist behaviour that I recall until the early years of secondary school.
Itís interesting that you are arguing that we are all hot wired to be racist and itís not therefore about nurture and how weíre brought up or are personal experiences. I would argue the fact that so many people disagree with points to the very fact that at least some people have had different life experiences to you which have shaped their different views on issues of race, in itself I think that undermines your main point, which I still think excuses racism.

Online brian green

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #121 on: July 13, 2020, 08:21:08 AM »
To show our solidarity with Zaha and players of all ethnicities when we are all back together he should have his own song.  The old Andy Gray song perhaps.  Oh Wilfried Oh Wilfried, You're the greatest the Holte End say.        I know it should be 'says' but it has to rhyme with  We are with you all the way. 

Offline Bobby Boy

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #122 on: July 13, 2020, 08:48:15 AM »
Some of the replies to the WMP tweet about this kid are so, so fucking depressing.

"OMG! IT'S ONLY WORDS! HOW CAN WORDS HURT ANYONE! YOU ARE IGNORING ASIAN GROOMING GANGS!"

I fucking hate what this country has become.

Hi Paulie, this is regrettably all too common.

I work for an MP who is empathetic to the BLM movement and we held a virtual meeting to discuss local action and the racist abuse was startling. Dozens of rebuttals that there is any issue and why are we wasting our time discussing BLM.

Diane Abbott has had and continues to get racist hate abuse. Dawn Butler has had to move out of her constituency office because of the the abuse she gets and attacks on her staff.

Education is key but the starting point for too many people in the UK is denial that there is a problem and why are we even talking about it.

People choose to believe what they want to believe and in this instance there is a word for that.

Online paul_e

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #123 on: July 13, 2020, 08:53:03 AM »
The big problem with what sickbeggar is suggesting is that there's no evidence for it. You don't see babies reacting negatively to other babies for example.

What is true is that we are "wired" to live in packs. For the majority of people that means being "beta" and following the example of the alpha. Where this clashes with the modern world is that we don't belong to a single pack. We all move between them and most of us adapt to fit in with the pack we're with. These 2 combined are where most hatred comes from.

Genetic mistrust/hatred doesn't exist but genetic follower instinct does.

Offline robbo1874

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #124 on: July 13, 2020, 09:08:59 AM »
They should send one-eyed Baz round to have a word.

Online Ad@m

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #125 on: July 13, 2020, 09:18:50 AM »
We've got twin boys (2 years old at the time). About a month after they went to the childminders for the first time - they were the only children under her care - a couple of polish kids started. The oldest spoke a bit of English, the youngest could only speak polish. Literally before the mum had left the house they were playing together, and within a couple of hours they were both chatting away to the younger child in Polish.

They'd never met any Polish person before.

I'm not convinced they had an innate fear of poles taking the potatoes out of our back garden....

In a similar vein, we took our lad (who was 3 at the time) on holiday to one of the Canary Islands a few years back. When we got there it transpires that the hotel we'd picked was big in Scandinavia but not so much Britain, so when he went to the holiday club he was the only English kids there amongst 19 Scandinavians, mostly Swedish. None of the other kids spoke English.

After two hours he came out full of smiles and for the rest of the holiday he kept waving and saying hello to all his new friends every time he passed them.

I know that sickbeggar started this by saying it was his opinion, but you'd have thought that in the absence of any scientific evidence to back up what he's saying, and universal disagreement with his view, he might question whether his opinion has any actual validity in reality.

Offline The Edge

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #126 on: July 13, 2020, 09:30:36 AM »
I felt sick when I heard this story and the fact that it came from a 12 year old makes it even more depressing. Not only is it a disgusting thing for Zaha to have to deal with crap like that it drags the good name of Aston Villa football club through the mud. A lot of people saying on social media that they hope we get relegated now as if we're all racists and we deserve it. Well we are NOT a racist club and we need to have our voice heard.We only have one more home game left to do this and  I wouldn't know how to organise such a thing but if someone could arrange it I would love to see a massive banner on the Holte for our last game with Zahas picture on it with the words "The Holte End Supports you Louis" I might be a dreamer but that would really make me proud.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 09:33:31 AM by The Edge »

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #127 on: July 13, 2020, 09:33:34 AM »
Are we really collectively responsible for every bell end who happens to follow the same team as us?

Online Ad@m

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #128 on: July 13, 2020, 09:33:35 AM »
I felt sick when I heard this story and the fact that it came from a 12 year old makes it even more depressing. Not only is it a disgusting thing for Zaha to have to deal with crap like that it drags the good name of Aston Villa football club through the mud. A lot of people saying on social media that they hope we get relegated now as if we're all racists and we deserve it. Well we are NOT a racist club and we need to have our voice heard.We only have one more home game left to do this and  I wouldn't know how to organise such a thing but if someone could arrange it I would love to see a massive banner on the Holte for our last game with Zahas picture on it with the words "The Holte End Supports you Louis" I might be a dreamer but that would really make me proud.

Who's Louis? 😉

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #129 on: July 13, 2020, 09:33:53 AM »
I was wondering that!

Online Ad@m

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #130 on: July 13, 2020, 09:35:39 AM »
I'm Louis and so's my wife!

Offline The Edge

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #131 on: July 13, 2020, 10:24:07 AM »
I felt sick when I heard this story and the fact that it came from a 12 year old makes it even more depressing. Not only is it a disgusting thing for Zaha to have to deal with crap like that it drags the good name of Aston Villa football club through the mud. A lot of people saying on social media that they hope we get relegated now as if we're all racists and we deserve it. Well we are NOT a racist club and we need to have our voice heard.We only have one more home game left to do this and  I wouldn't know how to organise such a thing but if someone could arrange it I would love to see a massive banner on the Holte for our last game with Zahas picture on it with the words "The Holte End Supports you Louis" I might be a dreamer but that would really make me proud.

Who's Louis? 😉
Ok Wilfred.!!

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #132 on: July 13, 2020, 10:42:00 AM »
Fear of not getting one's perceived fair share of scarce resources may be an inbuilt human trait, but it's got bugger all to do with the colour of a person's skin.  How many different races do you think prehistoric man tended to see?

larf. its fear of difference. Are you saying people who want the poles to  go back to Europe aren't racist because they have white skin?

I don't think anyone would suggest that.

I'd suggest that a toddler called Smith would be unlikely to have an innate fear of one called Kowalski.

If an adult, adolescent or, as in the case that started this thread, slightly older child was constantly being told that Polish people were untrustworthy, violent, dangerous, or any other unwanted trait you care to name, then they might dislike the adult Kowalksi.

Prejudice is learned, not genetic.

I disagree. Yes, a child taught that polish people have those characteristics by his parents could possibly grow up disliking them but not necessarily. Plenty of people around who's parents are a bit that way, but their offspring aren't, but  would a 5 year old with no experience of family anti-polish bias find a polish schoolmate who spoke bad english, ate different food etc strange or different? I think they would, and that polish child  would possibly experience bullying that had nothing to do with the bully's parents or upbringing.

I had to go to sleep in the middle of all this last night. But looking at it with a freshish pair of eyes, it seems to me your mixing up, purposely, or otherwise, theories around survival of the fittest, particularly with references to mankind 50 million years ago and the fact in your eyes weíre all inherently racist. I donít know what your politics are and itís none of my business but itís the kind Of right wing rhetoric thatís been bandied round by the tories subtlety or less so these days for generations, e.g. your poor because your lazy and work shy, not because your life chances are limited from the start in this country because of the post code you grow up under or the colour of your skin. Your wealthy because you deserve to be, not because in this country largely your white, male and middle class or upwards.
What the tories never want to understand is the community is just as much a human trait, you can see it in football when such disparate groups of people come together under the banner of their club.
Even within all of the above your arguments make no sense, your analogy of kids seeing other kids, say poles and seeing their different and not liking that difference, may happen but equally kids may be inquisitive and want to find out about the difference. Both my primary and secondary schools had a mix of West Indian and white Irish descent kids and itís interesting that there was no or little racist behaviour that I recall until the early years of secondary school.
Itís interesting that you are arguing that we are all hot wired to be racist and itís not therefore about nurture and how weíre brought up or are personal experiences. I would argue the fact that so many people disagree with points to the very fact that at least some people have had different life experiences to you which have shaped their different views on issues of race, in itself I think that undermines your main point, which I still think excuses racism.

Well i'm not getting into politics really. Suffice to say i consider myself to the left of the labour party, as opposed to what passes for it nowadays and i don't see any difference between the Daily mail/express reading right and the guardian reading left who are both using the present situation for their own advantage. Two sides of the same distasteful coin imo and i wont engage with either side.  i've never voted tory and i will never vote labour again.

As for the original point, people are perfectly entitled to believe its 100% nurture and not nature. Some people also believe all "bad" people are not born bad as well. Again i disagree.  Your point of view has been the common wisdom now since before i was at school. And yet in 2020 we are probably living in a more divided and fractured society over this issue that i can remember in my lifetime despite society and schools educating children on this matter. So if you are right and it is purely nurture, then someone needs to radically alter the methods of combating it, because it's clearly not working if a 12 year old can get to that age spouting that rubbish. . Anyway I think i'll leave it there as this has meandered far far from the original subject matter

Offline rob_bridge

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #133 on: July 13, 2020, 12:40:34 PM »
Are we really collectively responsible for every bell end who happens to follow the same team as us?

Nope - all clubs have bellend supporters. All clubs. Some, like the Rags, have a much higher proportion than others especially when talking about Villa (most of their life).

This young fella needs to be educated - at least he is at an age where his opinions and experiences could change more readily for the better.

Offline purpletrousers

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Re: Racist Scumbag Villa "Supporter"
« Reply #134 on: July 13, 2020, 12:54:16 PM »
Obviously you are entitled to your belief.
Iíve tried to acknowledge epigentics is starting to acknowledge there are some nature factors in inherited trauma responses, so not argued strictly purely nurture.

There doesnít to me seem to be a coherent logic to your argument however, beyond this still exists, therefore it must be what I think it is.

As for radically combatting racism, I suppose some of us hope we have seen a bit more empowerment to challenge the status quo (and stuff within ourselves, certainty within myself) of late with the BLM resurgence.

There are certainly shared concerns from me: re increased divided and fractured society.

If you are going to compare the Daily Mail & Guardian readers, I think you have to compare what they are reading/conditioned by - of course self selecting by what we expose ourself to.   

Iíll end with this question and answer.







 


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