Quote from: RamboandBruno on July 12, 2020, 11:52:59 PMQuote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:48:23 PMthere is no hierarchy in racism to my mind. It's as shitty to everyone whether you live in a country where the majority or establishment is white or black or asian. The point i'm making is its there to start with whatever your social conditioning. To blame an upturn in white racism on brexit or the tories is daft. I've heard some batshit crazy reasons why asians or blacks are subhuman by whites, blacks and asians (and i'm sure if i wasn't white i would have heard similar reasons why whites are subhuman). Its instinct, we kid ourselves we're anything other than apes with pretensions, and until we recognise that fact, the best that's gonna happen is no-one will say it, but will still think it.Your ideas take away any personal responsibility for racist behaviour and societal institutional racism that clearly exists and is well documented. If following your ideas then racism is a natural human behavioural instinct. I’m afraid without getting personal because I don’t know you, but your excusing racist behaviour.We'll have to agree to disagree. You obviously think humanity and society has evolved above racism. I don't think we have. Once we accept that, then you can deal with it properly
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:48:23 PMthere is no hierarchy in racism to my mind. It's as shitty to everyone whether you live in a country where the majority or establishment is white or black or asian. The point i'm making is its there to start with whatever your social conditioning. To blame an upturn in white racism on brexit or the tories is daft. I've heard some batshit crazy reasons why asians or blacks are subhuman by whites, blacks and asians (and i'm sure if i wasn't white i would have heard similar reasons why whites are subhuman). Its instinct, we kid ourselves we're anything other than apes with pretensions, and until we recognise that fact, the best that's gonna happen is no-one will say it, but will still think it.Your ideas take away any personal responsibility for racist behaviour and societal institutional racism that clearly exists and is well documented. If following your ideas then racism is a natural human behavioural instinct. I’m afraid without getting personal because I don’t know you, but your excusing racist behaviour.
there is no hierarchy in racism to my mind. It's as shitty to everyone whether you live in a country where the majority or establishment is white or black or asian. The point i'm making is its there to start with whatever your social conditioning. To blame an upturn in white racism on brexit or the tories is daft. I've heard some batshit crazy reasons why asians or blacks are subhuman by whites, blacks and asians (and i'm sure if i wasn't white i would have heard similar reasons why whites are subhuman). Its instinct, we kid ourselves we're anything other than apes with pretensions, and until we recognise that fact, the best that's gonna happen is no-one will say it, but will still think it.
Its instinct, we kid ourselves we're anything other than apes with pretensions, and until we recognise that fact, the best that's gonna happen is no-one will say it, but will still think it.
well you can only go from personal experience. In my 50 years i've seen whites being racist about blacks, whites being racist about asians, asians being racist about blacks, blacks being racist about asians. asians being racist about asians . whites and asians being racist about jews. blacks and asians being racist about whites. Seems pretty across the board to my mind.
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:48:23 PMIts instinct, we kid ourselves we're anything other than apes with pretensions, and until we recognise that fact, the best that's gonna happen is no-one will say it, but will still think it.So how do lots of people manage to be not racist then?
The point i'm making is its there to start with whatever your social conditioning.
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:24:42 PMwell you can only go from personal experience. In my 50 years i've seen whites being racist about blacks, whites being racist about asians, asians being racist about blacks, blacks being racist about asians. asians being racist about asians . whites and asians being racist about jews. blacks and asians being racist about whites. Seems pretty across the board to my mind.No. With respect this is load of bollocks and you really need to think about this. We are not talking about casual racism which is wrong in itself we are talking about an ingrained sense of self superiority and firm belief that darkies are inferior.
Quote from: purpletrousers on July 12, 2020, 11:50:29 PMQuote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:24:42 PMwell you can only go from personal experience. In my 50 years i've seen whites being racist about blacks, whites being racist about asians, asians being racist about blacks, asians being racist about backs. asians being racist about asians . whites and asians being racist about jews. blacks and asians being racist about whites. Seems pretty across the board to my mind.I’m not quite sure what your point/logic is here, but I think it may miss the point of systemic oppression, majority influence etc. I could equally cite examples of every race not being racist to every other race. My 12 month old is copying my behaviour now. We start shaping our offspring young. My response before I started reading the rest hasn’t changed, which was: no. You can go from things *other* than your own experience. You can talk to others and learn about *their* experience.ha, i've just listed whites being racists against other races and i'm not taking others experience into account? Quite the opposite to my mind.. I mean i would have to be friends with these other races to hear them being racist surely, or do people randomly spout racist stuff people they don't know? Not my experience.
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:24:42 PMwell you can only go from personal experience. In my 50 years i've seen whites being racist about blacks, whites being racist about asians, asians being racist about blacks, asians being racist about backs. asians being racist about asians . whites and asians being racist about jews. blacks and asians being racist about whites. Seems pretty across the board to my mind.I’m not quite sure what your point/logic is here, but I think it may miss the point of systemic oppression, majority influence etc. I could equally cite examples of every race not being racist to every other race. My 12 month old is copying my behaviour now. We start shaping our offspring young. My response before I started reading the rest hasn’t changed, which was: no. You can go from things *other* than your own experience. You can talk to others and learn about *their* experience.
well you can only go from personal experience. In my 50 years i've seen whites being racist about blacks, whites being racist about asians, asians being racist about blacks, asians being racist about backs. asians being racist about asians . whites and asians being racist about jews. blacks and asians being racist about whites. Seems pretty across the board to my mind.
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:48:23 PMThe point i'm making is its there to start with whatever your social conditioning. Complete nonsense. Children aren't born racist, it's a completely learned behaviour. I'm proud that my kids go to a school with a high percentage of Asian kids, and they all get on brilliantly. Our youngest (5 years old) has never even mentioned the colour of her friends' skin, it just doesn't occur to her that there's a difference.
Quote from: Dave on July 13, 2020, 12:00:46 AMQuote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:48:23 PMIts instinct, we kid ourselves we're anything other than apes with pretensions, and until we recognise that fact, the best that's gonna happen is no-one will say it, but will still think it.So how do lots of people manage to be not racist then?They learn from experience. Doesn't mean the programming isn't there to start with
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:55:54 PMQuote from: purpletrousers on July 12, 2020, 11:50:29 PMQuote from: sickbeggar on July 12, 2020, 11:24:42 PMwell you can only go from personal experience. In my 50 years i've seen whites being racist about blacks, whites being racist about asians, asians being racist about blacks, asians being racist about backs. asians being racist about asians . whites and asians being racist about jews. blacks and asians being racist about whites. Seems pretty across the board to my mind.I’m not quite sure what your point/logic is here, but I think it may miss the point of systemic oppression, majority influence etc. I could equally cite examples of every race not being racist to every other race. My 12 month old is copying my behaviour now. We start shaping our offspring young. My response before I started reading the rest hasn’t changed, which was: no. You can go from things *other* than your own experience. You can talk to others and learn about *their* experience.ha, i've just listed whites being racists against other races and i'm not taking others experience into account? Quite the opposite to my mind.. I mean i would have to be friends with these other races to hear them being racist surely, or do people randomly spout racist stuff people they don't know? Not my experience.You said you can only go from your own experience. I disagreed. Either way, just because you can name every type of racism does not prove that it is inherent. That is not a logical deduction. It doesn’t preclude that people learn racism. The fact that some don’t become overtly racist you presumably would argue is because they unlearned it?If you are arguing it’s inherent we are selfish, we are self regarding rather than other regarding you might have some grounds, but even that I’ve been watching closely and it’s amazing how little AV wants to share and feed her parents from so young. Given we’re of different races, I’d be interested who you’d advise she’s supposed to have inherent hatred off, both of us as we all have different skin colours?
There’s just so much here that needs unpacking sick beggar. I got to go do my paperwork, but appreciating you are seeeking to understand and consider how real change is possible, yet what you say seeems to be pretty alarming to (?)everyone else so far. I’m interested if you know many that agree with you that racial hatred is natural? You might need to give this some thought.