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Author Topic: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread  (Read 864434 times)

Offline RamboandBruno

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1785 on: August 07, 2020, 02:43:43 PM »
We had the 8th best defence after the restart and our strikers scored ZERO goals.

No surprise with 10 men behind the ball. We need a rock solid defence this coming season. I'd hope that whoever we buy is bought to go straight into the team. Squad fillers, we have plenty.

You're absolutely desperate to avoid giving our defence any credit for improving, aren’t you?

It’s a bit of a false argument mainly highlighting the defence as a weak area of the team. We finished 4th bottom and 1 point of relegation, so there is an argument that every area of the team needs improving. However, it is clear and the stats prove that we improved defensively as a team for the final 1/4 of the season. That was imo partly to do with the form of the actual defenders and just as much about the form of our defensive midfielder in Luiz and thirdly because of team shape and tactical changes made by smith. If those 3 things remain constant next season, that part of our game and the team will be ok, with some tweaks, e.g. another LB to challenge Targett (why not Rico Henry?).

What is also clear is despite improvements in that part of our game, we cannot score. Even if we keep one of Wes, Samatta or Davies, we need two forward players and another winger. Another centre mid would be nice, but within whatever budget we have, the front end of the pitch has to be the priority over other areas.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 02:45:56 PM by RamboandBruno »

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1786 on: August 07, 2020, 02:46:24 PM »
Lazio have made a £13m offer for Wesley according to the BHam Mail

Closer to £18 million I might bite.

There's still something to work with there and not unhappy with the idea of him competing for a starting spot but not having the pressure of being a regular starter/ most expensive forward on the books etc.

Samatta I would keep as well - at least until Wesley is fully fit again.

Looked like he had good movement and awareness around the box when he first joined. He can't have completely lost that. A combination of lockdown and a change of style probably did for him with the pressure on post March. New season with less fear football might see a player closer to what we witnessed in Jan and Feb.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 02:51:18 PM by KevinGage »

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1787 on: August 07, 2020, 02:50:17 PM »
... while Bowen managed 1 goal in 11 starts + 2 sub appearances for West Ham.
In his defence, he did also get 4 assists in that time.

Offline thick_mike

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1788 on: August 07, 2020, 02:54:34 PM »
Lazio have made a £13m offer for Wesley according to the BHam Mail

Samatta I would keep as well - at least until Wesley is fully fit again.

Looked like he had good movement and awareness around the box when he first joined. He can't have completely lost that. A combination of lockdown and a change of style probably did for him with the pressure on post March. New season with less fear football might see a player closer what we witnessed in Jan and Feb.

I think Samatta really struggled with lock down. He’d just moved to a new city and club and didn’t get an opportunity to put down roots and settle in with teammates. I saw some of his posts on twitter and he looked bored out of his mind. I felt really sorry for him, must have been really depressing.

Offline SheffieldVillain

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1789 on: August 07, 2020, 02:55:20 PM »
... while Bowen managed 1 goal in 11 starts + 2 sub appearances for West Ham.
In his defence, he did also get 4 assists in that time.

Fair point.

Even so, if we'd have splashed out £18m on him in January, what would be the response to 1 goal and 4 assists in the second half of the season? I doubt it would be seen as a successful signing.

Offline mallo

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1790 on: August 07, 2020, 03:02:05 PM »
We had the 8th best defence after the restart and our strikers scored ZERO goals.

No surprise with 10 men behind the ball. We need a rock solid defence this coming season. I'd hope that whoever we buy is bought to go straight into the team. Squad fillers, we have plenty.

You're absolutely desperate to avoid giving our defence any credit for improving, aren’t you?

It’s a bit of a false argument mainly highlighting the defence as a weak area of the team. We finished 4th bottom and 1 point of relegation, so there is an argument that every area of the team needs improving. However, it is clear and the stats prove that we improved defensively as a team for the final 1/4 of the season. That was imo partly to do with the form of the actual defenders and just as much about the form of our defensive midfielder in Luiz and thirdly because of team shape and tactical changes made by smith. If those 3 things remain constant next season, that part of our game and the team will be ok, with some tweaks, e.g. another LB to challenge Targett (why not Rico Henry?).

What is also clear is despite improvements in that part of our game, we cannot score. Even if we keep one of Wes, Samatta or Davies, we need two forward players and another winger. Another centre mid would be nice, but within whatever budget we have, the front end of the pitch has to be the priority over other areas.
We clearly changed our defensive strategy after lockdown - we booted it a lot more rather than trying to play it out and left ourselves in a lot less trouble as a result. We also had a better tempo off the ball when challenging attacks. I don't see why we can't continue in that vein. With better players up front we can build on that as they would be more of a threat and would surely score more goals than we have in the team now.

Offline Arsey

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1791 on: August 07, 2020, 03:05:13 PM »
After lockdown we took 10 points from 10 games carry that on and it’s still relegation zone form

the revisionism on here re players is staggering

If you didn’t see an improvement in our performances, particularly defensively I am not sure what to say.

You also need to consider the opposition, those final 10 games were almost all tough fixtures against top half sides.

In the previous 10 games, we lost 7 conceding 23 goals and not a single clean sheet.  Those games, on paper, were also much easier.

In the final 10 games we conceded just 11, 3 clean sheets. Only Man Utd scored more than 2 goals.  In the previous 10, Watford and Spurs put 3 past us. Leicester 4 and Man City 6.

So there really wasn’t revisionism, we did improve.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 03:07:13 PM by Arsey »

Offline villadelph

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1792 on: August 07, 2020, 03:07:49 PM »
Lazio have made a £13m offer for Wesley according to the BHam Mail

Unless they are also offering a player that we are interested in swapping with them too, 13m is way too low for what is a promising player.

I see very little promise in Wesley.. I'm not trying to be rude or negative but I just don't think he has the ability to consistently put the ball in the back of the net. He isn't strong with his head, cannot beat a defender off the dribble and doesn't seem to be comfortable with long(er) range efforts.

On the flipside, his hold-up play is decent and he can bully CBs.

Personally, I would try to recoup as much as we can and sell. Given the injury and how ineffective he was at times, I don't see a bright future for him.

Offline dicedlam

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1793 on: August 07, 2020, 03:17:29 PM »
It seems a strange one and a bit out of the blue that Wesley is being linked to Lazio. They already have a prolific scorer in Immobile who scored well over 30 goals last season. Maybe they are going to cash in on him?

Personally, I would let him go if we got anywhere near our money back.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1794 on: August 07, 2020, 03:18:48 PM »
... while Bowen managed 1 goal in 11 starts + 2 sub appearances for West Ham.
In his defence, he did also get 4 assists in that time.

Fair point.

Even so, if we'd have splashed out £18m on him in January, what would be the response to 1 goal and 4 assists in the second half of the season? I doubt it would be seen as a successful signing.

As an attacking midfielder/ second striker it's fine, under the circumstances.

West Ham fans aren't viewing him as a flop anyroad. Their upturn in form has coincided with his arrival and that big Czech unit they have in midfield.

Offline Risso

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1795 on: August 07, 2020, 03:22:52 PM »
It seems a strange one and a bit out of the blue that Wesley is being linked to Lazio. They already have a prolific scorer in Immobile who scored well over 30 goals last season. Maybe they are going to cash in on him?

Personally, I would let him go if we got anywhere near our money back.

Maybe we could swap our immobile forward for Immobile?

Offline SheffieldVillain

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1796 on: August 07, 2020, 03:24:22 PM »
... while Bowen managed 1 goal in 11 starts + 2 sub appearances for West Ham.
In his defence, he did also get 4 assists in that time.

Fair point.

Even so, if we'd have splashed out £18m on him in January, what would be the response to 1 goal and 4 assists in the second half of the season? I doubt it would be seen as a successful signing.

As an attacking midfielder/ second striker it's fine, under the circumstances.

West Ham fans aren't viewing him as a flop anyroad. Their upturn in form has coincided with his arrival and that big Czech unit they have in midfield.

Fair enough. Anyway, my main point wasn't really Bowen (I actually think he's a good player and long-term will be a success), it was that I don't think buying Championship players en masse is any more of a guarantee than from abroad.

Offline robleflaneur

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1797 on: August 07, 2020, 03:26:54 PM »
If it's true,it's a surprising conundrum. If we sold him,Nakamba and Samatta  ,on loan maybe,with the reported £100m transfer kitty we could buy
A £30m plus striker
£25m Watkins  or similar,central or wide attacker
£25m Benrhama or similar,central or wide player
£10 m upgrade on Hourihane and Nakamba
£20m full back.
Those fees can adjust to whoever is available.
Get rid of Lansbury ,Taylor,Jota ,Kalinic and Davis ,might have to subsidise wages for a year but we will have a quality first team squad and for the first time for ages, no experienced players on costly wages who aren't up to the league that we are in.
We could certainly lose out on Wesley's value and ability but with a reasonable wage bill we shouldn't hit any financial buffers and could easily strengthen again and younger players will have a clear pathway into the first team squad.


Offline postal

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1798 on: August 07, 2020, 03:28:54 PM »
Lazio have made a £13m offer for Wesley according to the BHam Mail

Well, I'd take it with a pinch of salt what BHam Mail says.
But I'd rather have Samatta instead of Wesley, if only that one of them isn't injured, can head the ball and seems to have a better attitude than the other.

Yes if it was £13m that might not seem much and a hit to take from what was paid for him, but despite that I don't rate Wesley, he honestly just doesn't have much to offer.

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1799 on: August 07, 2020, 03:30:10 PM »
I'd take that. He might still work out, but I'm far from sure. Getting most of our money back wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

We would be making a £9 million loss on a player who we’ve seen 6 months of. I think that’d be pointless. It’s way too soon to write him off, especially as his last game for us was his best.

 


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