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Author Topic: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread  (Read 864331 times)

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1755 on: August 07, 2020, 10:37:32 AM »
I don’t know why we got rid if Suso when according to you lot we are stacked out with quality players we brought in on his watch
For me, there's a couple of things.

Suso was brought in when we were a Championship club who expected to spend at least another season down there, and were in a tight FFP situation - we probably couldn't massively expand the recruitment side of things, so needed someone who could do several jobs competently rather than several people with specialised jobs. He may well have been the right person for the job then, he isn't now.

Also, I suspect a lot of the players brought in last summer are decent, at least at the price point we were paying (£10m average). However, what I suspect hasn't been understood is that they'd take time to adapt - Wes being a case in point - which we didn't have. As an aside, we were also hampered by injuries to 3 key players which I suspect played a large part in us being in a relegation battle rather than the relative comfort of lower mid table.

The ones who didn't appear to understand it were the owners.  Going into the season with Wes as our only senior striker was stupidity beyond belief, whatever the circumstances.
Surely the owners were relying on the CEO and his reports to get that right.
I can’t see how you can blame the owners.

Offline mallo

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1756 on: August 07, 2020, 10:37:43 AM »
After lockdown we took 10 points from 10 games carry that on and it’s still relegation zone form

the revisionism on here re players is staggering
Actually that would have beaten our points total by 3, but I know what you mean.

That’s why I said zone
Sorry - I read zone as bottom 3.

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1757 on: August 07, 2020, 10:42:38 AM »
After lockdown we took 10 points from 10 games carry that on and it’s still relegation zone form

the revisionism on here re players is staggering
Actually that would have beaten our points total by 3, but I know what you mean.

That’s why I said zone

The relegation zone is the bottom three.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1758 on: August 07, 2020, 10:50:57 AM »
After lockdown we took 10 points from 10 games carry that on and it’s still relegation zone form

the revisionism on here re players is staggering
What's your point though John, are you saying you think we should spread the funds over 7 or 8 players?  Or are you happy to go with Konsa/Engels and Guilbert/Elmo so we can get more quality up front?

Offline Mister E

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1759 on: August 07, 2020, 11:38:22 AM »
In terms of a CB, not sure if it's been mentioned here, but Smith was apparently desperate to sign Chris Mepham before he went to Bournemouth. I know he's been injured a lot this year, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him re-visit that one this summer. £15m should get him and he's got the potential to be a top-class player IMO.
Good point.

Offline OCD

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1760 on: August 07, 2020, 11:41:56 AM »
For any stato's out there, how often would our finishing points total been enough to survive?

It took time for us to grow as a side and to look like a team. Some players looked a lot better after lockdown and probably showed a better reflection of what they're capable of only in the latter part of the season. I've seen Douglas Luiz say that lockdown gave him a chance to do a lot of fitness work and to get a better grip on his English.

The defence and midfield can benefit from one or two changes but the obvious priority is up top.

I think surviving probably draws the line between one era of our history and the start of our next era. Reading about the work that's being done to our youth, recruitment and even women's team really gives me hope for where we're going.

Online paul_e

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1761 on: August 07, 2020, 11:43:35 AM »
After lockdown we took 10 points from 10 games carry that on and it’s still relegation zone form

the revisionism on here re players is staggering

I don't think it's fair or accurate to call it revisionism. Last summer most of us were happy with the business we did and thought we could do ok in our first year back, writing all that off and calling the signings a disaster is just as much revisionism as people looking back on the way the season finished and seeing positive signs in our defending.

The biggest problem with signing a large number of players in 1 window is that it takes time for the squad to grow accustomed to each other (both on the pitch and off), in business speak it's "forming, storming, norming, performing" and it applies perfectly to football. We've got through that now and it started to show towards the end of the season.

In my opinion, and I suspect many others as well, there were positive signs from a number of players (Luiz and Konsa the big ones) which suggest the defence is in a much better place, if that is a long-term improvement now would be a terrible time to make major changes because we've gone through all the shit to get here. If we revert to conceding too many soft goals then it'll show it was a mistake to trust them but it puts us back into a cycle of expecting instant results and throwing out anything that doesn't deliver them. We have to stop doing that if we want to get anywhere.

Online paul_e

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1762 on: August 07, 2020, 11:50:12 AM »
For any stato's out there, how often would our finishing points total been enough to survive?

It took time for us to grow as a side and to look like a team. Some players looked a lot better after lockdown and probably showed a better reflection of what they're capable of only in the latter part of the season. I've seen Douglas Luiz say that lockdown gave him a chance to do a lot of fitness work and to get a better grip on his English.

The defence and midfield can benefit from one or two changes but the obvious priority is up top.

I think surviving probably draws the line between one era of our history and the start of our next era. Reading about the work that's being done to our youth, recruitment and even women's team really gives me hope for where we're going.

I covered this somewhere else but the average points for survival in the premier league since it started are 35.6 (I think that's right, it's about there) so staying up with 35 is about 40-45% of the time. If you get the numbers in the same time period for other, comparable, leagues (Germany, Italy, Spain and France) where there are 20 teams the average is always around the same place so statistically it's pretty strong.

Offline JJ-AV

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1763 on: August 07, 2020, 11:51:01 AM »
The other point to consider with Targett is that he has reoccurring hamstring problems. He's always going to miss games, sporadically, over the course of the season. Taylor is nowhere near good enough to deputise regularly as he offer absolutely nothing going forward, whereas Targett's link-up and overlaps of Grealish is a key-part of our attacking play. We really need another LB to come-in and compete / rotate with Targett in my opinion, more-so that we do a new RB. Robinson at Wigan looks good (and cheap) and woudl be a good fit.

In terms of a CB, not sure if it's been mentioned here, but Smith was apparently desperate to sign Chris Mepham before he went to Bournemouth. I know he's been injured a lot this year, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him re-visit that one this summer. £15m should get him and he's got the potential to be a top-class player IMO.

Mepham is a good shout - he's left-sided though so it'd be the end of Hause and would he play with Mings? I know people say two right-siders aren't an issue so why would two left siders? But a right sider is usually used to playing on the left, whereas I bet Mings and Mepham have played very few games on the right side of CB.

Agree we do need a CB though. It's a long old season and a bit of experience could help. Vertonghen would be a shout for me.

Offline OCD

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1764 on: August 07, 2020, 11:57:39 AM »
Thanks Paul_e.

One thing to bare in mind with all our wishlists is that most of us aren't well positioned to assess the youth talent there's coming through. Hopefully one or two will be ready to come through and if they are, we don't want to block their path.

Offline RussellC

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1765 on: August 07, 2020, 12:07:04 PM »
The other point to consider with Targett is that he has reoccurring hamstring problems. He's always going to miss games, sporadically, over the course of the season. Taylor is nowhere near good enough to deputise regularly as he offer absolutely nothing going forward, whereas Targett's link-up and overlaps of Grealish is a key-part of our attacking play. We really need another LB to come-in and compete / rotate with Targett in my opinion, more-so that we do a new RB. Robinson at Wigan looks good (and cheap) and woudl be a good fit.

In terms of a CB, not sure if it's been mentioned here, but Smith was apparently desperate to sign Chris Mepham before he went to Bournemouth. I know he's been injured a lot this year, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him re-visit that one this summer. £15m should get him and he's got the potential to be a top-class player IMO.

Mepham is a good shout - he's left-sided though so it'd be the end of Hause and would he play with Mings? I know people say two right-siders aren't an issue so why would two left siders? But a right sider is usually used to playing on the left, whereas I bet Mings and Mepham have played very few games on the right side of CB.

Agree we do need a CB though. It's a long old season and a bit of experience could help. Vertonghen would be a shout for me.

I think he's pretty 2-footed to be honest. A bit like Terry. I'm unassuming that he would have played alongside Ake at Bournemouth, so could presumably do so alongside Mings too.

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1766 on: August 07, 2020, 12:20:17 PM »
Maybe Smith had reassured them/Purslow, that he could get Kodjia firing again if need be and we already know that Davis was/is highly rated by the manager.

Well that would be silly considering he never gave Kodjia a chance to do so. The Liverpool cup game where he finally scored a brace was his first and last start of the season, he didn't even get a full half of football in any other game. I don't think there's evidence that Smith thought he could rely on Kodjia; think we're grasping for straws if we're trying to justify the decisions made around our striking options last season.

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1767 on: August 07, 2020, 12:39:49 PM »
Vertonghen wouldn't be happy to sit on the bench and I don't want to replace either Mings or Konsa.

Offline Damo70

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1768 on: August 07, 2020, 12:59:33 PM »
Vertonghen wouldn't be happy to sit on the bench and I don't want to replace either Mings or Konsa.


Vertonghen is 33 and would he be up for what might at worst be another relegation scrap? He seems like too much of a Micah Richards/Joleon Lescott type of signing for me.

Offline Dave P

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread
« Reply #1769 on: August 07, 2020, 01:09:13 PM »
For any stato's out there, how often would our finishing points total been enough to survive?

It took time for us to grow as a side and to look like a team. Some players looked a lot better after lockdown and probably showed a better reflection of what they're capable of only in the latter part of the season. I've seen Douglas Luiz say that lockdown gave him a chance to do a lot of fitness work and to get a better grip on his English.

The defence and midfield can benefit from one or two changes but the obvious priority is up top.

I think surviving probably draws the line between one era of our history and the start of our next era. Reading about the work that's being done to our youth, recruitment and even women's team really gives me hope for where we're going.

I covered this somewhere else but the average points for survival in the premier league since it started are 35.6 (I think that's right, it's about there) so staying up with 35 is about 40-45% of the time. If you get the numbers in the same time period for other, comparable, leagues (Germany, Italy, Spain and France) where there are 20 teams the average is always around the same place so statistically it's pretty strong.

In 25 seasons of 20 teams in the premier league, 35 points and a -26 GD would have seen us relegated in 11 of those seasons so, yeah, 44% of the time we'd have stayed up with those points.

 


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