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Author Topic: Dean Smith Sacked  (Read 162552 times)

Online West Derby Villan

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1815 on: October 24, 2021, 02:49:12 PM »
I like the term tactical inflexability because that just about puts the finger on Smiths problem. If he had made the changes to structure and personal halway through the first half we could have got a win.

This is the key point for me.
There are quite a few posters on this thread and the general Dean Smith thread, that have never really rated him and never thought he was good enough for Villa. Mostly ive always felt this was unjustified, touched in snobbery, e.g. weíve got Dean from Great Barr, whilst Leeds have got the more exotic Biesla for example. I also felt there has often been a touch of lacking of realism when debating we should be going for Poch and now Conte.
Then there are posters who take it as it comes and then those that have been advocates for Smith and think he has credit in the bank. I see myself in the latter group.
However, taking the third best defence in the league and making it much worse through a tactical shift that has fairly clearly not been working and then belligerently sticking to that system, has made me feel increasingly anxious. Even after beating man u, i thought he should change it against a spurs side there for the taking at the time and as i was driving down the M5 on Friday night and five live announced the team, i literally couldnít believed heíd pick that side again. We were always going to struggle offensively without Grealish, but to make the defence worst and then believe the answer to the Grealish problem is our full backs, is crazy. On top of all this the inability to shift things round mid game leaves him open to justifiable criticism.
I would be shocked if he keeps the same team/system for West Ham, if he changes it up to say 433, and it works but even if it doesnt work out against a very good west ham team, then fair enough, either way he badly needs to even privately eat some humble pie and start again this season. Everyones fit, no excuses. To me if he does this, heís still the manager iíd keep till the end of the season, given people are proposing managers i dont see as any better in Gerard, Potter, Lampard and those that are unattainable for us-Conte.
If he keeps the same system for the next couple of games and performances  and results as well as team spirit doesnít  improve, he deserves to go.

Agree wholeheartedly

Offline Mister E

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1816 on: October 24, 2021, 02:52:49 PM »
... I would be shocked if he keeps the same team/system for West Ham, if he changes it up to say 433, and it works but even if it doesnt work out against a very good west ham team, then fair enough ...
Problem with next game is that the Spammers have 2 very strong CMF (Rice and Soucek) and pace and guile (Benrhama, Bowen and Fornals) around them - will 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 work best?!!
I agree, he has to do something different than in the last 3 games.

Offline Bobby Boy

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1817 on: October 24, 2021, 03:11:59 PM »
What annoys me more than his tactical inflexibility is his inability to ever acknowledge heís made a mistake or that he could be better. Itís always, always the players, never him. Be humble. Use WE even if it is the players that have been the main factor in a defeat. Because sometimes managers/coaches do get it wrong with tactics. Fans arenít stupid. We can see when it looks wrong and we expect that manager does too and has the acumen and ability to change it.

I agree with this. It is never wise to call out your players in public because even if what you are saying is justified these are still the guys you need to run through a brick wall for you the following week.

It's also odd to deny that the formation is a reason for the result when you have changed the formation at half time.

Everyone makes mistakes and it isn't weakness to acknowledge them.


Offline john2710

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1818 on: October 24, 2021, 03:30:45 PM »
I never thought he was the right man, he was just fortunate enough to have a once in a generation player at his disposal.

Without Grealish heís now got to show how good a manager he is & heís currently lacking.  I donít expect him to be here for next season.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1819 on: October 24, 2021, 03:31:19 PM »
What annoys me more than his tactical inflexibility is his inability to ever acknowledge heís made a mistake or that he could be better. Itís always, always the players, never him. Be humble. Use WE even if it is the players that have been the main factor in a defeat. Because sometimes managers/coaches do get it wrong with tactics. Fans arenít stupid. We can see when it looks wrong and we expect that manager does too and has the acumen and ability to change it.

I normally don't mind this so much but wheere it crosses a line is when you add a deflection from the real problem. On Friday we got the "it's not about systems or tactics" bit before he threw them under the bus and that pissed me off. A huge amount of the problems came from players not looking like they knew what they were supposed to do.

if you break it down:
Mings spent most of the first half marking Lacazette and Konsa was marking Aubamayang but then they had Saka playing right of a 3 unmarked and Tuanzebe was playing as free man in defence.
That meant Targett had Saka and their right back to deal with.
On the other side they used ESR drifting left to do the same thing to Cash.
That should've made space in the centre of midfield but Buendia looked like a winger being asked to play a role he didn't understand and McGinn was dropping in to help the full-backs so Luiz got overrun.

Every single one of those problems gets fixed by pushing Watkins and Buendia out wide and moving Tuanzebe into a holding role to mark ESR. Maybe we still don't win the game but after 10 minutes we should've changed the shape and tried to get a grip on things so we could re-think it at half-time. Smith didn't do that and then blamed the players for the problems, that's not a great sign.

I'm not in the out camp yet and the arguments I've made about him meeting every goal he's been set so far still remain but there are red flags for me right now and 35fucking2 is at the heart of them.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1820 on: October 24, 2021, 07:33:32 PM »
We play 3-5-2 vs West Ham we will be battered. They are a really solid, highly disciplined team. We will get torn apart.

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1821 on: October 24, 2021, 07:37:16 PM »
We'll go 4-3-3 and hope for the best. Bailey has to start and Ramsey will likely come back in. Interesting what we do with Ollie, that's a big decision for the manager. Maybe El Ghazi coming back for a few games on left wouldn't be such a bad call.

West Ham are doing well but are pretty low scoring team so big issues if we concede 2-3 again. At least they don't have Lingard.

I'm hopeful we can grind out a point and then win at Southampton and then Dean buys himself more time.

Online LukeJames

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1822 on: October 24, 2021, 07:40:13 PM »
When was the last time we made an appointment that made the world sit up and take notice? MON aside, you're probably talking 30 years ago?

It's not rocket science why we have under-achieved since the early 1990s.

Big Ron.

Exactly, even though this is probably harsh on Little, he did a good job, but he struggled to build and keep a squad happy I would say. Truth is that's the root of our problem and it is an awful shame as we had every right to dine at the top table. Big managers don't squander points, know how to utilise the squad, find a way to win when players are injured and most importantly attract top players.

Wasn't he pretty much bottom of the table with Leicester when we appointed him that season? Would be like us appointing Daniel Farke in next few weeks.

Im not advocating us appointing him in any way, shape or form, but I find myself consistently wondering how Farke would fair at a club that atleast attempts to compete. He's proven he's far too good for the Championship on both occasions he's been down there, unfortunately for him Norwich then give up before a ball has been kicked. I'd like to see what he can do it a club that atleast wants to stay up.

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1823 on: October 24, 2021, 08:23:11 PM »
When was the last time we made an appointment that made the world sit up and take notice? MON aside, you're probably talking 30 years ago?

It's not rocket science why we have under-achieved since the early 1990s.

Big Ron.

Exactly, even though this is probably harsh on Little, he did a good job, but he struggled to build and keep a squad happy I would say. Truth is that's the root of our problem and it is an awful shame as we had every right to dine at the top table. Big managers don't squander points, know how to utilise the squad, find a way to win when players are injured and most importantly attract top players.

Wasn't he pretty much bottom of the table with Leicester when we appointed him that season? Would be like us appointing Daniel Farke in next few weeks.

Im not advocating us appointing him in any way, shape or form, but I find myself consistently wondering how Farke would fair at a club that atleast attempts to compete. He's proven he's far too good for the Championship on both occasions he's been down there, unfortunately for him Norwich then give up before a ball has been kicked. I'd like to see what he can do it a club that atleast wants to stay up.

Probably same for me with someone like Ralph Hassenhuttl. I actually think he'd do alright with our squad (seems he knew how to get Ings scoring 20 a season anyway) but I completely understand why him hardly winning any games in 2021 would put people off!

Guy did finish 2nd in Bundesliga a few seasons ago so not like he's totally awful manager.

Online Clampy

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1824 on: October 24, 2021, 08:33:23 PM »
When was the last time we made an appointment that made the world sit up and take notice? MON aside, you're probably talking 30 years ago?

It's not rocket science why we have under-achieved since the early 1990s.

Big Ron.

Exactly, even though this is probably harsh on Little, he did a good job, but he struggled to build and keep a squad happy I would say. Truth is that's the root of our problem and it is an awful shame as we had every right to dine at the top table. Big managers don't squander points, know how to utilise the squad, find a way to win when players are injured and most importantly attract top players.

Wasn't he pretty much bottom of the table with Leicester when we appointed him that season? Would be like us appointing Daniel Farke in next few weeks.

Im not advocating us appointing him in any way, shape or form, but I find myself consistently wondering how Farke would fair at a club that atleast attempts to compete. He's proven he's far too good for the Championship on both occasions he's been down there, unfortunately for him Norwich then give up before a ball has been kicked. I'd like to see what he can do it a club that atleast wants to stay up.

What club are you talking about about then, if not us?

Offline gpbarr

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1825 on: October 24, 2021, 08:40:30 PM »
World class teams have world class managers AND squads. Changing the name on the tin wonít make us top 6 - for that deeper change is needed. We have one world class player - the rest are mid table PL fodder.

Online LukeJames

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1826 on: October 24, 2021, 09:05:40 PM »
When was the last time we made an appointment that made the world sit up and take notice? MON aside, you're probably talking 30 years ago?

It's not rocket science why we have under-achieved since the early 1990s.

Big Ron.

Exactly, even though this is probably harsh on Little, he did a good job, but he struggled to build and keep a squad happy I would say. Truth is that's the root of our problem and it is an awful shame as we had every right to dine at the top table. Big managers don't squander points, know how to utilise the squad, find a way to win when players are injured and most importantly attract top players.

Wasn't he pretty much bottom of the table with Leicester when we appointed him that season? Would be like us appointing Daniel Farke in next few weeks.

Im not advocating us appointing him in any way, shape or form, but I find myself consistently wondering how Farke would fair at a club that atleast attempts to compete. He's proven he's far too good for the Championship on both occasions he's been down there, unfortunately for him Norwich then give up before a ball has been kicked. I'd like to see what he can do it a club that atleast wants to stay up.

What club are you talking about about then, if not us?

Arsenal, Brentford, Brighton, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Everton, Leeds United, Leicester City, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Newcastle United, Southampton, Tottenham Hotspur, Watford, Westham United, Wolves.

What a stupid question.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 09:29:51 PM by LukeJames »

Offline Ads

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1827 on: October 24, 2021, 09:56:25 PM »
World class teams have world class managers AND squads. Changing the name on the tin wonít make us top 6 - for that deeper change is needed. We have one world class player - the rest are mid table PL fodder.

They're not at all.

Online LukeJames

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1828 on: October 24, 2021, 10:06:18 PM »
World class teams have world class managers AND squads. Changing the name on the tin wonít make us top 6 - for that deeper change is needed. We have one world class player - the rest are mid table PL fodder.

They're not at all.
I dont even think Trez is that good tbh.

Offline passport1

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1829 on: October 24, 2021, 10:26:56 PM »
Denos limitations have been apparent for some time. Friday night brought the main one into sharp focus namely the inability to think on his feet when the team are being overrun. Twenty minute in changes were needed but instead of acting he spent the remainder of the half in discussion  with Shakespeare.
The galling thing was that he had enough options on the bench but only acted after half time when the game was as good as lost.
It's little wonder that players are showing their frustration.


 


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