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Author Topic: Dean Smith Sacked  (Read 163485 times)

Online Clampy

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1800 on: October 24, 2021, 08:45:24 AM »
West Ham is going to be tough but the next 2-3 games after that all look very winnable so it's going to be interesting. The 5-3-2 definatley does need to go, especially now we're starting to get players back.

Offline ozzjim

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1801 on: October 24, 2021, 08:48:55 AM »
Palace and Brighton are both playing well have a clear style and plan and are playing to it. Both will be very tough games. Southampton have already started fighting for points.

Offline john e

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1802 on: October 24, 2021, 09:09:33 AM »
Haven't read all the posts over the latest few pages but one observation I would make to the assertion we've spent loads this summer is that in terms of net spend it's not a big amount at all, in fact is it even negative? Not sure on exact fees for the new trio. Factor in that the transfer fee received was for our one truly outstanding, world class player and I think the idea that we will inevitably make progress this season is flawed. I said in the summer I think we will do well to match last season's points total and I stand by that. Of course I'd like us to do better but that whole mobeyball speech from Purslow basically said we've replaced one player with three. Well unless the league let us play with 13 it doesn't really work like that. On a similar note, those thinking our owners will push the boat out for someone like Conte, Mancini, even that bloke from Ajax who I'd never heard of until today, are dreaming. Fair play to the owners for what they've done but talk of champions' league is frankly as fanciful as it was in the Ellis days. I just don't think they're able or willing to spend the absolute fuckton of cash it would take to get us there.

Whoever our manager is after spending 3/4 hundred million in the last three seasons if thatís the level of ambition we might as well pack up thereís literally no point

Unless we have a bit of belief in the manager whoever he is actually start thinking that we are capable playing a bit of football in an attractive manner and be good enough to get into the top half as a minimum state of intent then the whole Ďprojectí is a pointless exercise

Iím honestly pig sick of the negativity that surrounds Villa and the low expectations of some of the fans

Offline dutchvilla

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1803 on: October 24, 2021, 09:14:16 AM »
I think we can be quicker to blame him for defeats than praise him for wins but the flaws seen so obvious and repeated that I find it hard to see him as a good option if we're serious about progressing further.

Offline RamboandBruno

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1804 on: October 24, 2021, 09:15:46 AM »
When was the last time we made an appointment that made the world sit up and take notice? MON aside, you're probably talking 30 years ago?

It's not rocket science why we have under-achieved since the early 1990s.

Big names don't necessarily mean success. Spurs and Everton fans weren't too happy with Mourinho and Ancelotti for example.

As to our previous appointments, the only one I was totally against was McLeish. Houllier I had strong reservations about. All the others for the past 25 years or so seemed decent appointments at the time. Our club is a career killer though.

Really Smith has to hold a clear the air session with all players and staff tomorrow or Monday. Everyone knows that wasnt just a bad performance last night, it was rotten at every level. Needs to hold his hands up to the tactical shambles too. Try and get the season to start again v West Ham.

Agree with this

Offline ez

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1805 on: October 24, 2021, 10:09:20 AM »
If he starts 5-3-2 against West Ham I think I'd sack him at half time. Just have the guts to play 1 of Ings or Watkins, you know... like a manager. Ings has never been the wrong signing, it's just strength-in-fucking depth. Can someone tell Smith?



100%. I don't get this "they have to play" it's a squad game. I also think that if signing buendia for £38 million brings the best out of day Ramsey and then he keeps buendia out the team then that is still money well spent. Its how you create a competitive and ultimately winning environment something we appear to have lost many a decade ago. Play either ings or Watkins and let them fight it out. Ings wanted European football that's what needs to be done to achieve it.

A bugbear of mine is villa managers who see certain players as undroppable. Also playing the same team and line up because it worked in the previous game. It's outdated and dare I say lazy management.

Offline FatSam

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1806 on: October 24, 2021, 10:10:22 AM »
My concern is that Smith hasnít managed to make us consistent in terms of performances. If anything we are consistently inconsistent. There are mitigating factors in terms of pre-season, injuries, departures and international breaks etc. but I feel we should be closer to having worked out to to achieve this by now.

Iím worried by the tactical inflexibility. I thought the players bought in the summer would allow us to set up differently for different games. Instead it seems like we stick with one system until it is proven to be a total failure. Him saying that we had played well against Wolves other than a freak last 10 mins, seems almost a justification for sticking with the same against Arsenal, but they are two different teams, and we need to be able to set up differently for different games in my opinion.

At some point he needs to accept that you canít fit all of big signings in the same team in their best positions, so some will have to miss out. Replacing Joe with 3 players is all very well (and should make us more tactically flexible), but if they canít all play in the same team at the same time, then weíre inherently weaker. Weaker at our best, but more effective against different types of opposition should make us more consistent overall. But not if we just play the same way against everyone.

I didnít see the game or any build-up as Iíve been away, and was surprised that he went with 3-5-2 again. I thought it was clear that it works against some opponents, but not others - we got ripped to shreds by pacy forwards against Spurs, and I thought  Arsenal would be the same. Since the game however Iíve listened back to several preview podcasts, and if anything there was a feeling that we probably should stick with 3-5-2. If this was the case the criticism should be more about the slow in-game response. I think the manage by committee model that Smith seems to adopt probably leads to the lack of responsiveness in-game or even from game to game.

Offline richtheholtender

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1807 on: October 24, 2021, 10:17:15 AM »
If he starts 5-3-2 against West Ham I think I'd sack him at half time. Just have the guts to play 1 of Ings or Watkins, you know... like a manager. Ings has never been the wrong signing, it's just strength-in-fucking depth. Can someone tell Smith?



100%. I don't get this "they have to play" it's a squad game. I also think that if signing buendia for £38 million brings the best out of day Ramsey and then he keeps buendia out the team then that is still money well spent. Its how you create a competitive and ultimately winning environment something we appear to have lost many a decade ago. Play either ings or Watkins and let them fight it out. Ings wanted European football that's what needs to be done to achieve it.

A bugbear of mine is villa managers who see certain players as undroppable. Also playing the same team and line up because it worked in the previous game. It's outdated and dare I say lazy management.



100%. The 5-3-2 worked against Everton, man united and the majority of the game at wolves so it clearly has a part to play and works. That doesn't mean it works in every game and we need to attack other teams weaknesses.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1808 on: October 24, 2021, 10:21:22 AM »
If he starts 5-3-2 against West Ham I think I'd sack him at half time. Just have the guts to play 1 of Ings or Watkins, you know... like a manager. Ings has never been the wrong signing, it's just strength-in-fucking depth. Can someone tell Smith?



100%. I don't get this "they have to play" it's a squad game. I also think that if signing buendia for £38 million brings the best out of day Ramsey and then he keeps buendia out the team then that is still money well spent. Its how you create a competitive and ultimately winning environment something we appear to have lost many a decade ago. Play either ings or Watkins and let them fight it out. Ings wanted European football that's what needs to be done to achieve it.

A bugbear of mine is villa managers who see certain players as undroppable. Also playing the same team and line up because it worked in the previous game. It's outdated and dare I say lazy management.



100%. The 5-3-2 worked against Everton, man united and the majority of the game at wolves so it clearly has a part to play and works. That doesn't mean it works in every game and we need to attack other teams weaknesses.
Everton, Bailey came on and played right wing, Wolves we were letting them have plenty of opportunity to attack us but they kept making mistakes offensively, it didnít work against Spurs and it didnít work against Arsenal.

Online WarszaVillan

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1809 on: October 24, 2021, 10:28:31 AM »
If he starts 5-3-2 against West Ham I think I'd sack him at half time. Just have the guts to play 1 of Ings or Watkins, you know... like a manager. Ings has never been the wrong signing, it's just strength-in-fucking depth. Can someone tell Smith?



100%. I don't get this "they have to play" it's a squad game. I also think that if signing buendia for £38 million brings the best out of day Ramsey and then he keeps buendia out the team then that is still money well spent. Its how you create a competitive and ultimately winning environment something we appear to have lost many a decade ago. Play either ings or Watkins and let them fight it out. Ings wanted European football that's what needs to be done to achieve it.

A bugbear of mine is villa managers who see certain players as undroppable. Also playing the same team and line up because it worked in the previous game. It's outdated and dare I say lazy management.



100%. The 5-3-2 worked against Everton, man united and the majority of the game at wolves so it clearly has a part to play and works. That doesn't mean it works in every game and we need to attack other teams weaknesses.

Perhaps for the first time in his career, Smith has a large squad of quality players at his disposal. He needs to use this flexibly and adjust the formation and players to each game. This is what worries me the most about him. Last year he stuck with the same team until injuries and loss of form hit us. Now he has to show he can adjust - he has shown in the past that he can develop as a coach and hopefully he'll show this again. But a couple more performances like that and he'll be in trouble.

Offline N'ZMAV

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1810 on: October 24, 2021, 10:29:05 AM »
it's like MON all over again, picking favourites and shoe-horning them into the team and tactic

Offline ROBBO

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1811 on: October 24, 2021, 12:44:23 PM »
I like the term tactical inflexability because that just about puts the finger on Smiths problem. If he had made the changes to structure and personal halway through the first half we could have got a win.

Offline Allan C

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1812 on: October 24, 2021, 01:21:03 PM »
Haven't read all the posts over the latest few pages but one observation I would make to the assertion we've spent loads this summer is that in terms of net spend it's not a big amount at all, in fact is it even negative? Not sure on exact fees for the new trio. Factor in that the transfer fee received was for our one truly outstanding, world class player and I think the idea that we will inevitably make progress this season is flawed. I said in the summer I think we will do well to match last season's points total and I stand by that. Of course I'd like us to do better but that whole mobeyball speech from Purslow basically said we've replaced one player with three. Well unless the league let us play with 13 it doesn't really work like that. On a similar note, those thinking our owners will push the boat out for someone like Conte, Mancini, even that bloke from Ajax who I'd never heard of until today, are dreaming. Fair play to the owners for what they've done but talk of champions' league is frankly as fanciful as it was in the Ellis days. I just don't think they're able or willing to spend the absolute fuckton of cash it would take to get us there.

Whoever our manager is after spending 3/4 hundred million in the last three seasons if thatís the level of ambition we might as well pack up thereís literally no point

Unless we have a bit of belief in the manager whoever he is actually start thinking that we are capable playing a bit of football in an attractive manner and be good enough to get into the top half as a minimum state of intent then the whole Ďprojectí is a pointless exercise

Iím honestly pig sick of the negativity that surrounds Villa and the low expectations of some of the fans
Iím with you on this John e, in all my time being a Villa fan (in real terms since 1969) we always seem to be on the verge of pushing on to the ď next levelĒ only to be dragged back into the pack or worse. I think this is our last real chance to break into the so called elite, the owners ambition will be tested. Talk of replacing Smith with Potter for instance isnít exactly screaming ambition.

Offline RamboandBruno

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1813 on: October 24, 2021, 01:35:19 PM »
I like the term tactical inflexability because that just about puts the finger on Smiths problem. If he had made the changes to structure and personal halway through the first half we could have got a win.

This is the key point for me.
There are quite a few posters on this thread and the general Dean Smith thread, that have never really rated him and never thought he was good enough for Villa. Mostly ive always felt this was unjustified, touched in snobbery, e.g. weíve got Dean from Great Barr, whilst Leeds have got the more exotic Biesla for example. I also felt there has often been a touch of lacking of realism when debating we should be going for Poch and now Conte.
Then there are posters who take it as it comes and then those that have been advocates for Smith and think he has credit in the bank. I see myself in the latter group.
However, taking the third best defence in the league and making it much worse through a tactical shift that has fairly clearly not been working and then belligerently sticking to that system, has made me feel increasingly anxious. Even after beating man u, i thought he should change it against a spurs side there for the taking at the time and as i was driving down the M5 on Friday night and five live announced the team, i literally couldnít believed heíd pick that side again. We were always going to struggle offensively without Grealish, but to make the defence worst and then believe the answer to the Grealish problem is our full backs, is crazy. On top of all this the inability to shift things round mid game leaves him open to justifiable criticism.
I would be shocked if he keeps the same team/system for West Ham, if he changes it up to say 433, and it works but even if it doesnt work out against a very good west ham team, then fair enough, either way he badly needs to even privately eat some humble pie and start again this season. Everyones fit, no excuses. To me if he does this, heís still the manager iíd keep till the end of the season, given people are proposing managers i dont see as any better in Gerard, Potter, Lampard and those that are unattainable for us-Conte.
If he keeps the same system for the next couple of games and performances  and results as well as team spirit doesnít  improve, he deserves to go.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: Smith out
« Reply #1814 on: October 24, 2021, 01:41:40 PM »
What annoys me more than his tactical inflexibility is his inability to ever acknowledge heís made a mistake or that he could be better. Itís always, always the players, never him. Be humble. Use WE even if it is the players that have been the main factor in a defeat. Because sometimes managers/coaches do get it wrong with tactics. Fans arenít stupid. We can see when it looks wrong and we expect that manager does too and has the acumen and ability to change it.

 


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