Douglas Luiz - back at Juventus

[Risso]

Emery has got his first proper chance to really shape the team he wants. And that means that some players people have got used to are going to leave, and that players we might not know much about are going to arrive.

[Monty]

Barkley plays deeper now. He was in the Luiz role all year for Luton.

We have loads of players who can play more or less where Luiz was when he played at his best. None who play where Kamara does.

We have two who can cover the Luiz role, both of whom we'd really rather see further forwards.

[edgysatsuma89]

Regardless of their relative positions, I still don't understand the thought that people should or shouldn't want both as they were both just relegated. They have had completely incomparable careers, it's absolutely understandable to have a difference of opinion on either.

[Monty]

Regardless of their relative positions, I still don't understand the thought that people should or shouldn't want both as they were both just relegated. They have had completely incomparable careers, it's absolutely understandable to have a difference of opinion on either.

Should say, I really meant on the grounds of where they come from, which seemed to be the biggest objection to young Enzo. But I'm quite hungover and I've got bogged down like I'm playing on yesterday's pitch.

[pablo_picasso]

I don't want Barkley for reasons I have stated elsewhere, but the thing that is confusing me is that Iroegbunam isn't rated as good enough by some, although I think he isn't quite fully ready for Emerys CDM role just yet, but this 23 year old with one season with a relegated Serie A side is/will be?

He wasn't considered good enough/ready at the same age as Iroegbunam, but he is now the makeweight in a deal for one of the best midfielders in Europe?

I think we are getting shafted...

I think you’ve answered your own question with the Ireogbunam comment, he isn’t good enough, Unai worked with him all of last season and never felt he was ready to step up to the plate. There’s no guarantee this lad from Juve will be any better but until he arrives and contributes we don’t know. IMV we aren’t getting shafted, just moving on a player who isn’t good enough (in Unais view) and replacing him with someone who maybe. Our PSR position is driving this and we need to accept where we’re at.

Im not sure I did.

Iroegbunam isn't rated as good enough by some fans, but my view on him is that while he isn't quite ready for the dedicated CDM position that is more complicated by being in Emerys system, I personally think he more than has the potential to be. Especially by the time he reaches the age of Barrenechea.

And when he is, I think he would save us a lot more than £9M (£6M if you take away the Dobbin transfer fee), if we had patience with youngsters any more.

At Iroegbunams age, this Barrenechea kid was playing between the levels of Juventus youth team & the Swiss second division.

But thats not the point about being shafted in the Douglas Luiz transfer with Iling-Junior, Barrenechea & £20M. Villa are taking all the risk, more so with Barrenechea than Iling-Junior (who I am delighted with btw), but all of the risk is on our side for a player that Juventus couldn't even begin to imagine signing a quarter of with their finances, IF, we weren't making such concessions.

And I get that there are reasons we are selling, but if Juve want a world class footballer, they should be making a world class level transfer. Especially after they fucked around with McKennie & had to change their side of the deal.

We should accept no less than Iling-Junior, Barrenechea, £20M AND Soule...

[edgysatsuma89]

Regardless of their relative positions, I still don't understand the thought that people should or shouldn't want both as they were both just relegated. They have had completely incomparable careers, it's absolutely understandable to have a difference of opinion on either.

Should say, I really meant on the grounds of where they come from, which seemed to be the biggest objection to young Enzo. But I'm quite hungover and I've got bogged down like I'm playing on yesterday's pitch.

I definitely agree that Enzo shouldn't be dismissed just because he was relegated, we all know good players who have been relegated.

Any decent hangover "cures"?

[cdbearsfan]

Barkley plays deeper now. He was in the Luiz role all year for Luton.

We have loads of players who can play more or less where Luiz was when he played at his best. None who play where Kamara does.

We have two who can cover the Luiz role, both of whom we'd really rather see further forwards.

The Luiz role is attacking midfield, he was only playing deeper because Kamara was injured. Unless you're suggesting we play Barkley, who doesn't tackle, in defensive midfield, he's replacing one of McGinn, Tielemans or Rogers in the starting XI. Plus Ramsey when he's back.

We are sorted for attacking midfielders. We need someone to do the hard work in winning the ball for them. That's never been Barkley's game plan.

Even if you think he is good enough, which is a perfectly reasonable point of view though one I'd disagree with, it seems a bit mad to dismiss anyone who is more keen on Enzo than they are on him when they clearly play in quite different positions.

Edit: just seem your follow-up that you mean why would you object to one player coming from a relegated club and not another. That's fair enough, obviously.

[Monty]

Regardless of their relative positions, I still don't understand the thought that people should or shouldn't want both as they were both just relegated. They have had completely incomparable careers, it's absolutely understandable to have a difference of opinion on either.

Should say, I really meant on the grounds of where they come from, which seemed to be the biggest objection to young Enzo. But I'm quite hungover and I've got bogged down like I'm playing on yesterday's pitch.

I definitely agree that Enzo shouldn't be dismissed just because he was relegated, we all know good players who have been relegated.

Any decent hangover "cures"?

Sleeping in and praying for death tends to work for me eventually.

The Luiz role is attacking midfield, he was only playing deeper because Kamara was injured. Unless you're suggesting we play Barkley, who doesn't tackle, in defensive midfield, he's replacing one of McGinn, Tielemans or Rogers in the starting XI. Plus Ramsey when he's back.

We are sorted for attacking midfielders. We need someone to do the hard work in winning the ball for them. That's never been Barkley's game plan.

Even if you think he is good enough, which is a perfectly reasonable point of view though one I'd disagree with, it seems a bit mad to dismiss anyone who is more keen on Enzo than they are on him when they clearly play in quite different positions.

The Luiz role is not 'attacking midfield'!

[cdbearsfan]

Regardless of their relative positions, I still don't understand the thought that people should or shouldn't want both as they were both just relegated. They have had completely incomparable careers, it's absolutely understandable to have a difference of opinion on either.

Should say, I really meant on the grounds of where they come from, which seemed to be the biggest objection to young Enzo. But I'm quite hungover and I've got bogged down like I'm playing on yesterday's pitch.

I definitely agree that Enzo shouldn't be dismissed just because he was relegated, we all know good players who have been relegated.

Any decent hangover "cures"?

Sleeping in and praying for death tends to work for me eventually.

The Luiz role is attacking midfield, he was only playing deeper because Kamara was injured. Unless you're suggesting we play Barkley, who doesn't tackle, in defensive midfield, he's replacing one of McGinn, Tielemans or Rogers in the starting XI. Plus Ramsey when he's back.

We are sorted for attacking midfielders. We need someone to do the hard work in winning the ball for them. That's never been Barkley's game plan.

Even if you think he is good enough, which is a perfectly reasonable point of view though one I'd disagree with, it seems a bit mad to dismiss anyone who is more keen on Enzo than they are on him when they clearly play in quite different positions.

The Luiz role is not 'attacking midfield'!

No, because Kamara got injured so he had to play deeper.

[Monty]

CD. You're nuts here. Douglas Luiz has never played attacking midfield for Aston Villa. McGinn has. Tielemans has. Odegaard plays attacking midfield for Arsenal. Bellingham was (nominally) in attacking midfield for England yesterday. Douglas Luiz is usually the more advanced of a deep central two. I literally don't know what eyes you're using to watch the Villa if you think this is attacking midfield.

[edgysatsuma89]

Yeah, I'm with Monty here. Dougie is an 8, who had to play as a 6 due to Kamara's injury, but he's definitely not a 10. It all depends on whether you are calling the "8" here an attacking midfielder.

[Brazilian Villain]

Any decent hangover "cures"?

I don't tend to get bad hangovers, but a cold pint bottle of Bulmers normally does the trick if I'm not feeling 100%.

[LeeB]

CD. You're nuts here. Douglas Luiz has never played attacking midfield for Aston Villa. McGinn has. Tielemans has. Odegaard plays attacking midfield for Arsenal. Bellingham was (nominally) in attacking midfield for England yesterday. Douglas Luiz is usually the more advanced of a deep central two. I literally don't know what eyes you're using to watch the Villa if you think this is attacking midfield.

My feeling, and it is that rather than anything scientific, is that Emery had to adjust his plan a little to accommodate Doug and both he and the player made it work for us in his favoured role, but given other players he'd prefer to do things differently.

So the player fancying a move and the other factor of PSR has created a opportunity to get the type and number of players more tuned to the managers liking, and that nobody in particular is going to replace Doug because his favoured role will be a bit redundant.

[cdbearsfan]

CD. You're nuts here. Douglas Luiz has never played attacking midfield for Aston Villa. McGinn has. Tielemans has. Odegaard plays attacking midfield for Arsenal. Bellingham was (nominally) in attacking midfield for England yesterday. Douglas Luiz is usually the more advanced of a deep central two. I literally don't know what eyes you're using to watch the Villa if you think this is attacking midfield.

Whatever. McGinn, Tielemans, Ramsey, Rogers can all largely play in each other's positions. All of them are better in any of them than Ross sodding Barkley. I suspect Kellyman will be, too.

None of them can play defensive midfield. That's what we need.

Not Ross sodding Barkley.

He was just about good enough for us for a few months when we were much less good than we are now. Then he wasn't, for the second half of the season. He's nowhere near good enough for us now.

[Monty]

CD. You're nuts here. Douglas Luiz has never played attacking midfield for Aston Villa. McGinn has. Tielemans has. Odegaard plays attacking midfield for Arsenal. Bellingham was (nominally) in attacking midfield for England yesterday. Douglas Luiz is usually the more advanced of a deep central two. I literally don't know what eyes you're using to watch the Villa if you think this is attacking midfield.

My feeling, and it is that rather than anything scientific, is that Emery had to adjust his plan a little to accommodate Doug and both he and the player made it work for us in his favoured role, but given other players he'd prefer to do things differently.

So the player fancying a move and the other factor of PSR has created a opportunity to get the type and number of players more tuned to the managers liking, and that nobody in particular is going to replace Doug because his favoured role will be a bit redundant.

I mean, perhaps. But Barkley played a very, very similar position for Luton most of last year, so that tells me Unai's happy at the least with the positional setup.

CD, lord love you, but I literally don't know what you're talking about. Barkley has played deep in midfield, like Luiz, for a year. It's clearly to play in that position - DEEP MIDFIELD - that he's being brought in. Therefore he's not competing with Ramsey or McGinn.

So, I'm sorry, but I actually have no idea what you mean.