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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 189888 times)

Online sickbeggar

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2160 on: December 09, 2021, 09:50:37 AM »
They want to overturn the decisions that add to the drama and spectacle for their viewers.

You can interpret the incident however you like. Was it the correct decision by VAR? Possibly. Was it a clear and obvious error? Nope.

The ref missing a player being 3 foot offside is a clear and obvious error. A ref missing someone being a knee or arm offside is not. The clear and obvious error line is only there to be used as a "get-out" when they miss something. i.e. "Yes Player A could have been fouled in the build-up to a goal, but it wasn't a clear and obvious error by the referee." They can't lose.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 04:25:57 PM by sickbeggar »

Online LeeB

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2161 on: December 09, 2021, 09:52:02 AM »
The want to overturn the decisions that add to the drama and spectacle for their viewers.

You can interpret the incident however you like. Was it the correct decision by VAR? Possibly. Was it a clear and obvious error? Nope.

The ref missing a player being 3 foot offside is a clear and obvious error. A ref missing someone being a knee or arm offside is not. The clear and obvious error line is only there to be used as a "get-out" when they miss something. i.e. "Yes Player A could have been fouled in the build-up to a goal, but it wasn't a clear and obvious error by the referee." They can't lose.

There's enough scope for them to apply their bias as they see fit, and that's the way they like it.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2162 on: December 09, 2021, 01:17:08 PM »
The NFL manage this superbly well and it is all aided by the Refs being miked up and a quick explanation of the reason for the foul and the penalty given. Once done they then support the decision by a quick video reference (although not sure if this is live in the stadium or just on TV)

I am sure this could be used in our football.

I hate the way currently the TV commentators and the TV audience seem to know what the decision is quite a time before the fans in the stadium do and that should not happen

Offline London Villan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2163 on: December 09, 2021, 01:52:42 PM »
Live in the stadium for NFL.

Offline LeonW

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2164 on: December 12, 2021, 07:51:21 PM »
VAR has been in place in the Premier League for two and a half years now and the PGMOL still can't use it correctly. Far from levelling the playing field, its widened it. There's no transparency and I'm sick to death of games being decided by it. It needs to be removed or at  the very least, requires a total overhaul.

Online GordonCowansisthegreatest

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2165 on: December 12, 2021, 07:59:12 PM »
It's got to be taken out of the hands of PGMOL!

Online andrew08

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2166 on: December 12, 2021, 08:17:29 PM »
The big NFL difference is the ability to challenge a decision. But its still not used for every type of play which leads to as much controversy as here.

Online algy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2167 on: December 12, 2021, 09:13:22 PM »
For me, VAR ought to be the easiest thing to implement:

1. The referee can, at their discretion, signal that they want a VAR review on an incident. They know they've (potentially) seen something, they want to check it. In this case, they can use whatever they want - a million different angles, slow motion etc. This must come from the referee, unprompted by the VAR official.

2. There's something that has happened outside of the referee's field of vision* that can *clearly* be seen in real time. One this instance, it can be shown to the referee once, at the speed that it happened at. No replays, no slow motion, one camera angle. If it's clear and obvious, that should be sufficient.




* Field of vision - this should be shown *to the crowd & players* to be the case. They can do those lines for offside, so they can also do them to say that it happens >30° of the direction the referee is looking or more than, say, 40m away. You could also show if their line of sight is blocked. You should easily be able to show that the referee couldn't possibly have seen the incident, and that they could've judged it under the same circumstances - played once at real time - as they would've done if they had seen it.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2021, 09:15:53 PM by algy »

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2168 on: December 12, 2021, 10:02:49 PM »
The 'V' bit of VAR isn't where the root of fan disgruntlement lies, it's the inconsistent subjective interpretation and application of the Laws by the 'R' bit.

Online Steve67

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2169 on: December 12, 2021, 10:12:25 PM »
Perhaps the captain of the team can contest a decision once during the game and ask a referee to view the monitor? A bit like the three reviews cricket teams get. VAR absolutely has to work for both sides. Yesterday it didn’t and makes people look like they are cheating.

Offline LeonW

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2170 on: December 13, 2021, 12:15:53 AM »
I think the following would help:

* bringing back the daylight rule (if that ever was a rule, I can’t remember) for offside and using VAR for detecting that. That would stop stupid armpit stuff.
* Removing the ‘clear and obvious’ guideline as this is at the core of where a lot of problems are coming from. I’m not even sure that terminology is part of how VAR is used in other leagues.
* No freeze frames to base decisions on, except for offside.
* More than one angle of replays of incidents as this is often subjective in its selection as we’ve seen.
* The referees and Stockley Park to me miked up so there is transparency in why and how decisions are made.
* A much better communication with matchday fans on what’s going on. VAR shouldn’t just be a tv audience thing.
* As someone mentioned before, taking it out of the hands of the PGMOL. They’re just reviewing themselves and guess what; they always find themselves correct.


That would probably be a decent start.

Offline dcdavecollett

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2171 on: December 13, 2021, 02:36:53 AM »
Disastrous w/end for VAR.

Palace/Everton -blatant foul by Saha on Coleman in the build-up to Palace's second goal. Not even reviewed, apparently.

Leicester/Newcastle -blatant dive by Maddison to get the penalty. Reviewed by VAR yet STILL awarded!!

Burnley/West Ham -blatant foul on Dawson in the box, reviewed by VAR -no penalty given!!

What a shambles!!!

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2172 on: December 13, 2021, 10:45:06 AM »
I think the following would help:

* bringing back the daylight rule (if that ever was a rule, I can’t remember) for offside and using VAR for detecting that. That would stop stupid armpit stuff.
* Removing the ‘clear and obvious’ guideline as this is at the core of where a lot of problems are coming from. I’m not even sure that terminology is part of how VAR is used in other leagues.
* No freeze frames to base decisions on, except for offside.
* More than one angle of replays of incidents as this is often subjective in its selection as we’ve seen.
* The referees and Stockley Park to me miked up so there is transparency in why and how decisions are made.
* A much better communication with matchday fans on what’s going on. VAR shouldn’t just be a tv audience thing.
* As someone mentioned before, taking it out of the hands of the PGMOL. They’re just reviewing themselves and guess what; they always find themselves correct.


That would probably be a decent start.

First one seems unnecessary, offside has been ok this season since they made changes, but I agree with the rest.

Online Mister E

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2173 on: December 13, 2021, 12:15:09 PM »
... The bigger issue was the ref deciding not to use VAR for the Ollie/Evans incident.
Why didn't they ask Evans?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 12:18:57 PM by Mister E »

Offline LeonW

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2174 on: December 13, 2021, 02:53:04 PM »
I think the following would help:

* bringing back the daylight rule (if that ever was a rule, I can’t remember) for offside and using VAR for detecting that. That would stop stupid armpit stuff.
* Removing the ‘clear and obvious’ guideline as this is at the core of where a lot of problems are coming from. I’m not even sure that terminology is part of how VAR is used in other leagues.
* No freeze frames to base decisions on, except for offside.
* More than one angle of replays of incidents as this is often subjective in its selection as we’ve seen.
* The referees and Stockley Park to me miked up so there is transparency in why and how decisions are made.
* A much better communication with matchday fans on what’s going on. VAR shouldn’t just be a tv audience thing.
* As someone mentioned before, taking it out of the hands of the PGMOL. They’re just reviewing themselves and guess what; they always find themselves correct.


That would probably be a decent start.

First one seems unnecessary, offside has been ok this season since they made changes, but I agree with the rest.

As a cynic, i’m waiting for offside controversies to return. If they’ve managed to sort that out then that would be something.

 


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