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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 77318 times)

Online chrisw1

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1245 on: February 19, 2020, 04:14:49 PM »
I still believe it can work, but by god they are doing their level fucking best to make sure it doesn't.

If you gathered 20 morons in a room and asked them how best to manage video refereeing they wouldn't be able to come up with a worse system than this.

For the life of me I don't understand why they can't just swallow their fucking pride and directly copy the rugby union methodology, if necessary replacing the big screen replays with pitchside monitors if they really don't think a crowd of grown ups can handle seeing sensible justified decisions played out on a screen.

Offline The Edge

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1246 on: February 20, 2020, 10:50:52 AM »
Listening to this new "Wengers law" re:offsides, i'm not convinced it will rid us of the current mess the game is in due to the arrogant fuckwits that are running it. It will still be down to opinions. I'm told that technology is being developed that will "chip" both players and the ball. This should mean that they will have a definitive moment that the ball is passed forward thus they can freeze frame the still picture accurately. That isn't possible right now so giving offsides for miniscule "offences" has to involve some guesswork. They will be able to accurately tell if any part of the body has strayed offside however small. But is that the spirit of the game? Is that what it's come down to? Not for me it isn't. I think it should be simply down to the refs using the pitchside monitor which they were supposed to do in the first place. It would cut out the blatant errors. If the ref can't tell if it's offside without the need for protractors and lines all over the place then it's not offside. Simples. Just leave it at that. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 10:52:58 AM by The Edge »

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1247 on: February 20, 2020, 01:24:08 PM »
All Wenger is proposing is what Souness said months ago, and has been suggested on here more than once, which is moving the line of (in)decision from in front of to behind the attacker. He'll get more credibility for suggesting it though because he looks like a French Professor Yaffle rather than an angry Scottish midfielder or an internet crackpot.

Same shit, different line to moan about millimetres over.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1248 on: February 20, 2020, 01:24:28 PM »
Forget 1st phase / 2nd phase or that he may have had a pube in the offside position after a few minutes of trigonometry

Wenger speaks sense when it is the clear light between defender and attacker that should be the measure - have to give the attacker the benefit not the defender

Offline The Edge

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1249 on: February 20, 2020, 01:57:35 PM »
Forget 1st phase / 2nd phase or that he may have had a pube in the offside position after a few minutes of trigonometry

Wenger speaks sense when it is the clear light between defender and attacker that should be the measure - have to give the attacker the benefit not the defender
I'd be ok with that so long as it's the refs decision and he used the pitch side monitor. If he's not 100% from that then he doesn't give offside. It was brought in to stop the blatant ones eg: Chelseas goal at Cardiff last season when both the ref & lino missed the Chelsea player being about 2 fkn yards offside. It's the refs themselves who have caused all the crap by insisting on giving offside for a few millimetres.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 04:21:20 PM by The Edge »

Offline Drummond

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1250 on: February 20, 2020, 03:03:42 PM »
I still believe it can work, but by god they are doing their level fucking best to make sure it doesn't.

If you gathered 20 morons in a room and asked them how best to manage video refereeing they wouldn't be able to come up with a worse system than this.

For the life of me I don't understand why they can't just swallow their fucking pride and directly copy the rugby union methodology, if necessary replacing the big screen replays with pitchside monitors if they really don't think a crowd of grown ups can handle seeing sensible justified decisions played out on a screen.

Oh yes I could!

Online Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1251 on: February 20, 2020, 11:17:22 PM »
The fundamental flaw with using VAR for offsides is that the technology can't tell when the ball was played and therefore will never know to the millimetre whether someone is offside. Moving the line from the strikers cock to his arse won't change that.

The simplest solution I've seen (probably on here) is to go with the linesmen unless VAR can definitively prove otherwise within 20 seconds. If disproving a decision takes longer than 20 seconds it can't possibly be a clear and obvious error and we should all just move on.

The same time limit should be applied to all VAR decisions so if we're going to have our celebrations cut short at least it'll be quick rather than the current shitshow of not knowing whether we're allowed to cheer until the opposition kicks off 3 minutes after the ball's hit the net.

Offline The Edge

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1252 on: February 21, 2020, 09:39:10 AM »
The fundamental flaw with using VAR for offsides is that the technology can't tell when the ball was played and therefore will never know to the millimetre whether someone is offside. Moving the line from the strikers cock to his arse won't change that.

The simplest solution I've seen (probably on here) is to go with the linesmen unless VAR can definitively prove otherwise within 20 seconds. If disproving a decision takes longer than 20 seconds it can't possibly be a clear and obvious error and we should all just move on.

The same time limit should be applied to all VAR decisions so if we're going to have our celebrations cut short at least it'll be quick rather than the current shitshow of not knowing whether we're allowed to cheer until the opposition kicks off 3 minutes after the ball's hit the net.
See my post earlier on this page. I hate it when prats like Gary Neville spout off  "offside is offside no matter if it's a millimetre" No it fucking isn't!! The rules state offside is judged when the ball is played.If your dealing in millimetres to give offside  then you have to include milliseconds for when the ball is released. They can only move the picture one frame at a time which makes it a guess which frame is correct. The problem is interpretation. VAR was introduced to prevent clear and obvious errors. They have ruined the whole thing with their ridiculous interpretation of the tech. Who gave our officials permission to ignore the pitchside monitors? They were introduced as part of the whole concept so why are our refs ignoring them when all other countries are using them? Arrogance is my bet. They think they're the gold standard of referees but they aren't. Look how many of our refs make it to the World cup finals.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 09:42:58 AM by The Edge »

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1253 on: February 21, 2020, 10:02:33 AM »
I fucking hate myself for this, but if they're going to insist on using it for offsides, they need to eliminate this extant doubt over when the ball is played. So, I propose that it is looked at twice, once in the instant which is clearly the last available frame before the ball is played, and again in the instant which is clearly the first frame once the ball is played. If you're offside in both, only then are you off.

I'm off for a shower.

Offline andyh

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1254 on: February 21, 2020, 10:10:45 AM »
I still think that Souness has the best solution.
If ANY part of the body is onside, then you are onside.

 
 

Offline ez

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1255 on: February 21, 2020, 10:18:07 AM »
I still think that Souness has the best solution.
If ANY part of the body is onside, then you are onside.

 

Or in other words, there has to be daylight inbetween for it to be offside.. They did have this rule for a time then got rid of it.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1256 on: February 21, 2020, 10:49:58 AM »
I've no qualms with the Law itself, whether remaining as it is or redefined in favour of 'daylight' or not. Whatever, as long as it remains in one form or other. The problems with implementation, officiating and adjudication will remain exactly the same while the current level of tech is being used.

As an aside, I know it's only getting used in goal and penalty incidents, but in these is it looking for any build-up infringements outside the area other than offside?

Online Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1257 on: February 21, 2020, 12:43:05 PM »
The trouble with changing the law to any part of the player, or daylight, or anything similar is that you're still looking at drawing a line somewhere when the measurement tool isn't precise enough to measure it accurately.

We need to go back to basics - offside is there to stop goalhanging, not to stop good goals where someone's heel was possibly millimetres further forward than the last defender whilst facing away from goal.  The rule was written the way it is because it was easy to do so and the fact it was being applied by humans meant that an inherent element of judgement was built in to its application.

Now it's being applied by computers to all intents and purposes that judgement has been taken away and you're getting silly answers as a result.

They either need to scrap the computer or change the rule to introduce some judgement again. Or we're going to keep having perfectly good goals ruled out.

Online Nev

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1258 on: February 22, 2020, 08:08:19 PM »
I don't really understand why everyone is wetting their knickers about the VAR official getting decisions "wrong". It's subjective, so your wrong maybe my right.
That is the fundemental flaw with VAR, it will never be resolved and has only damaged the game.

Stiil, crack on.

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1259 on: February 22, 2020, 08:22:04 PM »
Looking forward to seeing the Burnley-Bournemouth highlights on MOTD, sounds like VAR excelled itself there.