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Author Topic: Matt Targett - signed  (Read 38179 times)

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #210 on: December 12, 2019, 12:10:24 PM »
His delivery is very good, he links up well with Grealish, he over laps well, I like what he offers us going forward.

For what it's worth I agree, and I don't think the tackle was malicious, but dangerous nonetheless.

And however good he may be going forward, he is at least that bad at the back, and that's where the concern comes in for me.

Personally I'd give Hause (were he match fit) a shot at left back ahead of either Targett or Taylor.

Online paul_e

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #211 on: December 12, 2019, 12:16:07 PM »
That challenge isn't a leg breaker in any way.

It was late, high, with studs showing and excessive force on a player's shin. So, naturally, "not a leg breaker in any way". Unfortunately this is about the level of analysis I've come to expect from you.

Watch it again and tell me people haven't had horrific breaks from similar. It was a dangerous tackle and he should've walked for it.

Lets do some analysis then. It's late, given he's sliding in there's not much he can do about that. It's high but if you watch he raises his foot to try to block the ball when it's clear he won't make the tackle, it's not high because it's misjudged or malicious. Studs showing isn't irrelevant because his studs aren't aimed at the player (due to the timing and angle) and don't make any contact, the actual contact is the inside of his heel going across the guys shin. You only have to have a basic understanding of how forces work to know why the angles and impact here make a broken leg a highly unlikely result.

Compare it to something like this -
- where Taylor has studs up straight on to Coleman's shin and you can see what a true leg breaking challenge looks like. The only way a leg break happens in a side on challenge is if the tackled player has his foot planted and the tackle goes into his leg from the side instead across the front.

If Targett is half a second later or if his 'line' is 3-4 inches to his right then yes, red card and potentially a serious injury but that's just not what happened.

Offline JJ-AV

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #212 on: December 12, 2019, 12:31:16 PM »
Targett's understanding with Grealish is fantastic for me. Going forward on the left-side we look great, particularly with Conor in there.

For me it has to be Nakamba, Hourihane, Grealish and Targett - I think when Luiz comes in or Hourihane isn't there we look weaker down the left side defensively.

Luiz lacks the defensive nous and Hourihane smells the danger a little better.

Do agree Targett lacks defensive positional sense too though, which short-term may be a problem but he needs to improve.

Much like with Wesley upfront I think our squad lacks experience generally, we lost a lot of that in the Summer, we could do with one or two wiser heads in January.

Offline Clark W Griswold

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #213 on: December 12, 2019, 01:29:53 PM »
Not quite sure how you can say it's 'not a leg breaker in any way' Paul. People have had their legs broken by exactly that kind of tackle. The fact of the matter is that it didn't break his leg, but if Targett had been sent off i wouldn't have been surprised. He seemed to have a slightly insane grin on his face about it just after as well, not quite sure what that was all about.
As for the big picture, like most of the signing's we've made, he's young, inexperienced but looks promising in a lot of ways. I think he'll go on to be a decent signing.

Online paul_e

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #214 on: December 12, 2019, 03:11:25 PM »
Not quite sure how you can say it's 'not a leg breaker in any way' Paul. People have had their legs broken by exactly that kind of tackle. The fact of the matter is that it didn't break his leg, but if Targett had been sent off i wouldn't have been surprised. He seemed to have a slightly insane grin on his face about it just after as well, not quite sure what that was all about.
As for the big picture, like most of the signing's we've made, he's young, inexperienced but looks promising in a lot of ways. I think he'll go on to be a decent signing.

I can say it because no professional footballer would suffer a broken leg in that impact, there's nothing like the concentrated force required. The way he made the tackle could've been a leg breaker in different circumstances, and I've never said it's not a bad tackle, but in context there was no risk of serious injury from it and there is no way to say that he made the challenge intending to hurt him so a red card would've been harsh, a view that the ref and VAR official quite clearly agree with. Again compare it to the Taylor/Coleman one and you'll see the difference between a poorly timed tackle and a leg-breaker.

Offline Risso

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #215 on: December 12, 2019, 03:25:13 PM »
Jesus Paul, you don't half talk some shite at times.  Unless you've got some extremely hi-tech gadgetry at home, you've absolutely no way of knowing whether there was enough force to break his leg.  Look at the other player's foot at the moment of impact, it's bent at a very odd angle and he was extremely fortunate in my opinion to escape injury.  And what's this nonsense about a "difference between a poorly timed tackle and a leg breaker"? It's completely possible for a tackle to be both.

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #216 on: December 12, 2019, 03:27:14 PM »
Jesus Paul, you don't half talk some shite at times.  Unless you've got some extremely hi-tech gadgetry at home, you've absolutely no way of knowing whether there was enough force to break his leg.  Look at the other player's foot at the moment of impact, it's bent at a very odd angle and he was extremely fortunate in my opinion to escape injury.  And what's this nonsense about a "difference between a poorly timed tackle and a leg breaker"? It's completely possible for a tackle to be both.

Spot on.

Offline Goldie.7

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #217 on: December 12, 2019, 03:33:54 PM »
That challenge isn't a leg breaker in any way.

It was late, high, with studs showing and excessive force on a player's shin. So, naturally, "not a leg breaker in any way". Unfortunately this is about the level of analysis I've come to expect from you.

Watch it again and tell me people haven't had horrific breaks from similar. It was a dangerous tackle and he should've walked for it.

If Targett is half a second later or if his 'line' is 3-4 inches to his right then yes, red card and potentially a serious injury but that's just not what happened.

You do know you can get sent off for "intent" don't you? Just because the opposition player wasn't seriously injured doesn't mean it's not a red card offence. I suggest you take some time and look at the fa.com website because you clearly need it.

SENDING-OFF OFFENCES

  • SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

"A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force"

Key word there being endangers. You said it yourself "if Targett was half a second later or if his 'line' is 3-4 inches to his right"

It's a red card offence, just accept you're wrong and move on.

Online paul_e

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #218 on: December 12, 2019, 03:45:46 PM »
Do you know what, you all believe that the ref and VAR don't know the laws of the game as well as you and carry on thinking we got lucky with it, it's really not worth arguing over, he's not banned, I don't think he should be, you lot seemingly do.

Offline Risso

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #219 on: December 12, 2019, 03:48:03 PM »
Yes, it's not like the VAR refs have been an unmitigated disaster this season is it.

Online chrisw1

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #220 on: December 12, 2019, 04:03:00 PM »
Jesus Paul, you don't half talk some shite at times.  Unless you've got some extremely hi-tech gadgetry at home, you've absolutely no way of knowing whether there was enough force to break his leg.  Look at the other player's foot at the moment of impact, it's bent at a very odd angle and he was extremely fortunate in my opinion to escape injury.  And what's this nonsense about a "difference between a poorly timed tackle and a leg breaker"? It's completely possible for a tackle to be both.
I'm with Risso on this.

Online paul_e

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #221 on: December 12, 2019, 04:26:27 PM »
Jesus Paul, you don't half talk some shite at times.  Unless you've got some extremely hi-tech gadgetry at home, you've absolutely no way of knowing whether there was enough force to break his leg.  Look at the other player's foot at the moment of impact, it's bent at a very odd angle and he was extremely fortunate in my opinion to escape injury.  And what's this nonsense about a "difference between a poorly timed tackle and a leg breaker"? It's completely possible for a tackle to be both.
I'm with Risso on this.

It really doesn't need 'hi-tech gadgetry' to have a basic understanding of conservation of momentum and be able to apply it to a real world situation but again, it really doesn't matter enough for me to care if people disagree.

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #222 on: December 12, 2019, 04:43:51 PM »
Jesus Paul, you don't half talk some shite at times.  Unless you've got some extremely hi-tech gadgetry at home, you've absolutely no way of knowing whether there was enough force to break his leg.  Look at the other player's foot at the moment of impact, it's bent at a very odd angle and he was extremely fortunate in my opinion to escape injury.  And what's this nonsense about a "difference between a poorly timed tackle and a leg breaker"? It's completely possible for a tackle to be both.
I'm with Risso on this.

It really doesn't need 'hi-tech gadgetry' to have a basic understanding of conservation of momentum and be able to apply it to a real world situation but again, it really doesn't matter enough for me to care if people disagree.

Haha fucking hell

I'm sure that's exactly what was going through Matt Targett's mind when he saw Pereira about to do him for pace (again): "Okay, time to absolutely burst this fella, but remember: conservation of momentum! If I go in a half-second too late, or I'm 3-4 inches to the right, it might be a dangerous one!"
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 04:45:32 PM by AsTallAsLions »

Offline Risso

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #223 on: December 12, 2019, 04:57:31 PM »
Well I've calculated the trajectory of Targett's leg, allowed a degree of uncertainty for the density of his shin pads, multiplied it by the number I first thought of, adjusted it for the Black-Scholes derivative pricing model, and concluded that it was still definitely a red card.

Online brian green

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Re: Matt Targett - signed
« Reply #224 on: December 12, 2019, 05:15:08 PM »
What about the Duckworth-Lewis formula?

 


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