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Author Topic: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)  (Read 135342 times)

Offline supertom

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #630 on: August 18, 2019, 11:54:27 AM »
There's no point writing him off after two games. It's not all about him either. Aside from flashes from Trezeguet, and McGinniesta being typically good, no one has clicked offensively yet, so Wesley isn't getting much help. He needs time to settle and some backing, and others need to be chipping in.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #631 on: August 18, 2019, 11:54:54 AM »
It's worth remembering when we signed Benteke we had likes of Bent and Gabby who in August 2012 were still pretty decent premier league strikers before their downward dips.

Benteke became first choice because he showed early on he really had something (and also scored on his debut) but we could've also introduced him slowly (Weimann was also coming through at that time and had a decent debut season in the end).

Many more options than we do now. Kodjia picking up injuries and not the player he was in 16/17 and Davis also injured regularly and scored 3-4 goals in championship.

A brugge fan elsewhere also thinks it will take him up a year or two to develop into a proper good CF at premier league level.

Just seems bonkers to me we've spent 100m + and yet let ourselves very light in the most important area at premier league level.

Offline supertom

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #632 on: August 18, 2019, 12:17:40 PM »
It's worth remembering when we signed Benteke we had likes of Bent and Gabby who in August 2012 were still pretty decent premier league strikers before their downward dips.

Benteke became first choice because he showed early on he really had something (and also scored on his debut) but we could've also introduced him slowly (Weimann was also coming through at that time and had a decent debut season in the end).

Many more options than we do now. Kodjia picking up injuries and not the player he was in 16/17 and Davis also injured regularly and scored 3-4 goals in championship.

A brugge fan elsewhere also thinks it will take him up a year or two to develop into a proper good CF at premier league level.

Just seems bonkers to me we've spent 100m + and yet let ourselves very light in the most important area at premier league level.
I doubt we weren't trying to pull in 1-2 more attackers. It did sound like we had very definite interest in a few other front players, wide and central but couldn't pull it off. I don't think it'll take Wesley 2 years to settle. But for 22 million we've got to stick it out with him. He'll hopefully come good. For me, I'd be eyeing that league cup game and no even considering resting him for that. Get him out on the pitch, a goals a goal no matter who it's against and no disrespect to the opponents for that game but it's going to be easier to find the net that it will against Everton.
A goal will do him the world of good. Even Benteke for his first few games left people unconvinced, but the fact he scored on his debut did him the world of good. There was an air of fortune about that goal. Just a stroke of luck and opportunity that will hopefully come Wes's way.

We do need more cover, but our options are to wait till january or gamble on Sturridge who doesn't particularly fit into how we want to play and that's before you consider his wages and injuries.

Offline Holte L2

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #633 on: August 18, 2019, 01:34:41 PM »
Balotelli on a free. There I've said it.

Online brian green

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #634 on: August 18, 2019, 01:39:34 PM »
Comes with a free ironing board.

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #635 on: August 18, 2019, 02:25:11 PM »
What looked obvious to me yesterday was this is a team which is going to take four or five matches to really gel - not to say we're going to lose the next three and it's totally acceptable, just that for all the pre-season preparation, playing games in the top flight is a different thing entirely.

Having said that, bar one or two posters who have gone somewhat OTT, I don't think there's anything wrong in pointing out where players have struggled in the discussions on here. That's a totally different thing to giving them shit at the game.

Wesley has struggled as far as I am concerned, i genuinely think he offered next to nothing yesterday - no, he didn't get much service from the flanks, but when he was around the ball, he looked a little clumsy and awkward to me.

Am I concerned? Yes, I am, but not purely because of Wesley, but because if he does struggle to settle (entirely possible for a player new to a league, and if that's the case then there's no need to crucify him for it) then we don't have a credible alternative option.

Time will tell, but I do think for the first few games, we will continue to look a bit disjointed.

FWIW, I have seen enough from Spurs and from yesterday to take a considerable amount of heart from.

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #636 on: August 18, 2019, 02:50:33 PM »
The comparison with Benteke is false. Benteke had a presence and a menace. You could see that straight away, even Lambert worked out if you can play to Bentekes strengths he would get goals.
There is no evidence of that with Wesley.
If we are ok with a low scoring Centre forward then DS has got to change the way we play to get other players in goal scoring positions ( not Taylor) obviously. 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' have Sala and Mane.
Who do we have ?

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #637 on: August 18, 2019, 02:58:34 PM »


One thing is for absolute certain. He's not going to score without some service in the box.

Offline Vill I An

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #638 on: August 19, 2019, 11:03:15 AM »
One thing for certain is that Dean Smith has stated "Suso made me aware of Wesley" and this particular signing was identified by our Sporting director.
It does suggest that in watching club brugge ,  scouting Marvelous Nakamba , Wesley caught the attention too. Now Nakamba looks an energetic- McGinn-swashbuckling-style-drive the team - type who is there on profile.

With Wesley , a good sporting director in recruiting procedures will make substantial checks on the player. It matters not which scout, if not the head of recruitment,  brought to attention Wesley abilities , what matters is how ready and capable Wesley is to perform at premier league level.
Personally I see raw talent. Dean Smith would be positive and confident in his coaching ability to develop Wesley.
There was much intrigue, and wonder in the signing of AVFC first ever Brazilian player.
Known to having natural ability and flair the excitement of having a South American striker who has great skill is naturally expected.
This certainly caught the imagination and say instead of Oliver McBurnie - potentially equally as capable. Villa signed a Brazilian who played in Champions League and far more 'exciting' . Was this just in part a good  marketing move with potential? i

I do have some concerns on the strategic thinking in signing a 22 year old striker ,  new to country, new to premier league level , new to language and new to experience being the number 1 striker at Villa . Wesley is expected to come in lead the line and perform, create and score goals and display his talent in doing so. So far it's only glimpses in mixed hold up play.  Shots wise 2 accurate headers 1 each match on target but velocity of delivery didn't help. Wes against Bournemouth showed us once a strong hold -player- off and shot at goal effort but rare to see him as any goal threat thus far. Movement wise : he could do better.

Some people have so far seen Wesley  'style ' or observed he's 'that type of striker' that more creates for others .
However he may be seen I  essentially expect the main striker to provide a contribution chiefly in goals, but also in all round team play. Closing , pressing , link up play and movement.
That sort of play is what Dean Smith wants . Ok so , DS is given players to work with for his squad  , and has a proven record of developing players .
There's a reliance there in the team build in Smith . That's the key right there. Wesley is expected to improve under Dean Smith.

Over this summer Dean also suggested players -which were signed .
Wesley , was  not Smiths suggested signing and for me is concern on how  strong a strategic move this was .
Certainly Wesley can grow his value. Firstly I like to see him show his value of 22 million. He has not done this .

The Wesley transfer can be seen as something  of a gamble then . Maybe a game of patience to adapt and develop but that needs to be sooner rather than later.
The reason ? for it is he who is the central striker and it is he who has to perform since Game one.
For why ? Because the shortage of attacking strikers and reliance for midfielders and others to score puts a burden on whole team if the striker isn't perfotming.
The team has chances and goals in them I would like to have seen at least one more striker and wide forward in the squad to add , compete and help contribute.

One final observation on Wesley . His on field temperament is questionable. Now this is something I expected to be noted with in regards to the checks on personalities and characters. The last thing Villa need is him being suspended. I totally see shades of Diego Costa when he takes to the pitch.
That for one moment doesn't mean anything for his off field character and personality. But I do wonder with the way this signing came about , the other striker options like Maupay for one , if this Wesley was the way to go. Time will tell.

If, for a moment , I could contrast this to Trezeguet who was watched by Dean Smith with Suso at Afcon , I'm far more confident in Trez being a decently good premier league player.

On the 2 matches so far I would have Trezeguet scoring more goals than Wesley and ultimately Wesley will be judged on his goals.

I made this post in part to reason the suitability of Wesley transfer . As Suso recommended and he's signed and  integrated into the squad.
Some of my thoughts perhaps more conjecture but he was a recommendation and to me doesn't look totally a Dean Smith player

I am happy to have him in as it stirs excitement having a potential Brazilian magican. However, I  looking for more than just glimpses in play for what we have spent. I think , or hope there will be more than just a 'potential' strategic benefit in signing him and that the investment is a wise one.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 11:29:30 AM by Vill I An »

Offline Drummond

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #639 on: August 19, 2019, 11:58:26 AM »
I actually see him as more a possible new Carew/Dublin rather than the new Heskey/Harewood right now.

I saw positives today, to be writing him off after today is quite frightening.

The players on the pitch get less time than ever on the ball in the premier league, and promoted teams get less time than ever to settle into their stride now.

Aggregate that down. Our sole striker doesn't, unfortunately, have the luxury of an indeterminate number of games to get used to things and find his feet.

For better or worse this is football now - we needed a striker who could adapt and start performing more or less immediately.

In your view maybe.

Our whole team need to adjust to playing in this division.

Should Grealish and Luiz go as well because they've fucked up? Could ditch Heaton as well and start all over again.

Then again, the manager has picked them all so he should go as well.

Offline Risso

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #640 on: August 19, 2019, 12:05:13 PM »
I actually see him as more a possible new Carew/Dublin rather than the new Heskey/Harewood right now.

I saw positives today, to be writing him off after today is quite frightening.

The players on the pitch get less time than ever on the ball in the premier league, and promoted teams get less time than ever to settle into their stride now.

Aggregate that down. Our sole striker doesn't, unfortunately, have the luxury of an indeterminate number of games to get used to things and find his feet.

For better or worse this is football now - we needed a striker who could adapt and start performing more or less immediately.

In your view maybe.

Our whole team need to adjust to playing in this division.

Should Grealish and Luiz go as well because they've fucked up? Could ditch Heaton as well and start all over again.

Then again, the manager has picked them all so he should go as well.

A slightly over the top reaction to a reasonable post I'd say.  Where has he mentioned that anyobody shuld be ditched or need to go? Whilst being pleased with the summer's business, quite a few people questioned the fact that we didn't get another forward, and I don't think it's being unduly negative to say that the situation looks like it might cause us some difficulties.

Online aj2k77

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #641 on: August 19, 2019, 12:05:44 PM »
He doesn't look like a lone striker to me.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #642 on: August 19, 2019, 12:10:12 PM »
I actually see him as more a possible new Carew/Dublin rather than the new Heskey/Harewood right now.

I saw positives today, to be writing him off after today is quite frightening.

The players on the pitch get less time than ever on the ball in the premier league, and promoted teams get less time than ever to settle into their stride now.

Aggregate that down. Our sole striker doesn't, unfortunately, have the luxury of an indeterminate number of games to get used to things and find his feet.

For better or worse this is football now - we needed a striker who could adapt and start performing more or less immediately.

In your view maybe.

Our whole team need to adjust to playing in this division.

Should Grealish and Luiz go as well because they've fucked up? Could ditch Heaton as well and start all over again.

Then again, the manager has picked them all so he should go as well.

A slightly over the top reaction to a reasonable post I'd say.  Where has he mentioned that anyobody shuld be ditched or need to go? Whilst being pleased with the summer's business, quite a few people questioned the fact that we didn't get another forward, and I don't think it's being unduly negative to say that the situation looks like it might cause us some difficulties.

It's the point though. He didn't need to be an immediate success; players rarely are. But he's been here for 2 competitive matches and already the knives are out.

See Heaton too, and others.

I'm not saying I think he'll be a world-class player (maybe one day) but he needs to be given time, as they all do. It's new for all concerned.


Offline GarTomas

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #643 on: August 19, 2019, 12:39:39 PM »
He's got some ability, but he looks like he need to be gradually introduced to the Premier League.  Which we can't do as we neglected to buy any other forwards.

Is the correct answer.  I donít think though we would of been able to sign another forward who could carry that burden with the existing framework in place.

Online chrisw1

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Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
« Reply #644 on: August 19, 2019, 12:47:06 PM »
It didn't take an oracle to realise we were betting the farm on Wesley.  Hopefully he'll come good but it's perfectly understandable that people are concerned, particulaly given the lack of cover.