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Author Topic: The International Cricket Thread  (Read 257219 times)

Offline Villan For Life

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4935 on: February 25, 2021, 06:20:49 PM »
That result means that we canít qualify for the world test championship final, it will be between either Australia, India and New Zealand.

Where do you start with that? A test match that finishes just after tea (or was it dinner) on day two after 30 wickets fell is not a true test match. Iím just about prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt given that the whole square is brand new, but itís unacceptable to produce a strip where both sides struggle.

As for our struggles against spin, this is nothing new and I think part of the issue is the structure of the first class game in this country. We donít produce quality spinners and when we have someone with a bit of potential we throw them into the test team and hope they will develop into a match winner. So because we donít have quality spinners with a full range of deliveries, our batsmen arenít used to facing that kind of bowler and when we end up playing on the sub continent we struggle.

Red ball county cricket isnít geared to producing quality spinners; most of the red ball cricket is played in the early season when our conditions are not spin friendly. Then through the warmer summer months the focus is on white ball cricket where a spinner can bowl a maximum of 60 deliveries. Whatís left of red ball cricket is then played in September when pitches tend to be dull and lifeless.

Itís not rocket science is it?

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4936 on: February 25, 2021, 07:09:39 PM »
England were piss poor - repeated unacceptable innings. Also Bairstow - what a selection.

Regardless of that India should face some sort of penalty for that pitch. I have no problem with a spinning pitch, or a seaming pitch or whatever. Home advantage is fine, but a pitch that causes a result in two days is unacceptable.

Offline aj2k77

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4937 on: February 25, 2021, 07:20:13 PM »
One of the worst days of cricket I've ever watched.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4938 on: February 25, 2021, 07:22:56 PM »
England were piss poor - repeated unacceptable innings. Also Bairstow - what a selection.t

Regardless of that India should face some sort of penalty for that pitch. I have no problem with a spinning pitch, or a seaming pitch or whatever. Home advantage is fine, but a pitch that causes a result in two days is unacceptable.

Hmmm ....... good luck with that!!

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4939 on: February 25, 2021, 07:25:05 PM »
England do have an issue against spin. At least 3, probably 4 of the top 6 donít appear to have a clue.

Left arm spin in particular. 

Online Gareth

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4940 on: February 25, 2021, 09:25:25 PM »
England were piss poor - repeated unacceptable innings. Also Bairstow - what a selection.t

Regardless of that India should face some sort of penalty for that pitch. I have no problem with a spinning pitch, or a seaming pitch or whatever. Home advantage is fine, but a pitch that causes a result in two days is unacceptable.

Hmmm ....... good luck with that!!

And watch the next pitch in the same ground be an absolute road & big scores be got

Offline Steve67

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4941 on: February 25, 2021, 10:27:39 PM »
Some poor selection choices made, one spinner and three fast bowlers, in India!!  Wow, dreadful. 

Offline taylorsworkrate

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4942 on: February 26, 2021, 01:10:22 AM »
It was a poor selection I agree, as it was clear after the pitch that was prepared for the second match that the 3rd one was going to be along the same lines. They got suckered into thinking the lights were going to make it swing round corners when if anything, its easier to bat under lights against the seamers in India as the dew makes the ball come nicely onto the bat. Having a tail that starts with Archer at no 8 isn't great either. its not back to the days of Caddick, Mullally, Tufnall and Giddins as the tail, but its not far off.

In hindsight, they made a rod for their own backs dropping Bess after the first test, and then the whole mishandling of Moeen going home.

Offline Villan For Life

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4943 on: February 26, 2021, 07:43:58 AM »
It struck me that the pink ball has a thicker lacquer on it which would definitely assist the spinners.

As a red ball gets older is loses its lacquer and gets slightly darker. It doesnít matter if it gets stained by grass etc because in normal light you can still see it. You canít play a day night test with a pink ball thatís getting dark and dirty under lights, why donít they use a white ball? It works in ODI cricket at all levels. Or is it a way of differentiating between tests and ODI cricket?

Offline JD

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4944 on: February 26, 2021, 08:04:36 AM »
That pitch was not suitable for a five day test match. Looked more like a pitch beside a beach. No excuses for England's loss but that pitch was a disgrace.

Offline simboy

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4945 on: February 26, 2021, 08:38:49 AM »
English batsmen do not play on spinning pitches in county games. The administration encourages pitches to be generally seamer friendly and flat in the county game. Somerset got penalised last season for having a pitch that suited their spinners.

Bess and Leach are products of Somersetís academy, Bess taking the white rose dollar. Swann and Monty came through the Northamptonshire academy, starting their careers on a Wantage Road track that turned.

Moeen bowled well in the Birmingham Leagues at the age of 16 but was a batsman who could bowl when he reached the England set up, playing at Worcester and Edgbaston. Rashid became a one day bowler, as he was overlooked from about 2011 onwards. He got on pitches in Pakistan which should have suited him but he bowled as he did in England, to contain and it all went wrong.

Good young spinners do exist but get into the county circuit and have to bowl to contain on pitches suited to fast medium wobblers. As a consequence our top order (with the exception of Root) havenít got a clue when it goes off the straight.

 If you canít bat as a left arm twirler youíre first to be dropped in league cricket, hence the bating is prioritised and the bowling takes a back seat. I read a piece about Warne in the Lancashire leagues as the overseas pro getting lambasted by the locals because he wasnít taking wickets. He was almost dropped but got a decent couple of runs.

Breaking into the county academies is tough if youíre solely a spinner. Getting into the county team harder and making a reputation harder still.  Our batsmen therefore donít learn against the better bowlers and the national team cannot last 80 overs for 20 wickets.


Offline aev

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Offline aev

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4947 on: February 26, 2021, 08:43:17 AM »
English batsmen do not play on spinning pitches in county games. The administration encourages pitches to be generally seamer friendly and flat in the county game. Somerset got penalised last season for having a pitch that suited their spinners.

Bess and Leach are products of Somersetís academy, Bess taking the white rose dollar. Swann and Monty came through the Northamptonshire academy, starting their careers on a Wantage Road track that turned.

Moeen bowled well in the Birmingham Leagues at the age of 16 but was a batsman who could bowl when he reached the England set up, playing at Worcester and Edgbaston. Rashid became a one day bowler, as he was overlooked from about 2011 onwards. He got on pitches in Pakistan which should have suited him but he bowled as he did in England, to contain and it all went wrong.

Good young spinners do exist but get into the county circuit and have to bowl to contain on pitches suited to fast medium wobblers. As a consequence our top order (with the exception of Root) havenít got a clue when it goes off the straight.

 If you canít bat as a left arm twirler youíre first to be dropped in league cricket, hence the bating is prioritised and the bowling takes a back seat. I read a piece about Warne in the Lancashire leagues as the overseas pro getting lambasted by the locals because he wasnít taking wickets. He was almost dropped but got a decent couple of runs.

Breaking into the county academies is tough if youíre solely a spinner. Getting into the county team harder and making a reputation harder still.  Our batsmen therefore donít learn against the better bowlers and the national team cannot last 80 overs for 20 wickets.



What hope is there when there are 2 schedules rounds of 4 day cricket for July and August when wickets should be most conducive to spin?

Offline UK Redsox

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4948 on: February 26, 2021, 09:57:07 AM »
Also, when it does spin a lot, the county might get penalised for a poor wicket

Online paul_e

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Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #4949 on: February 26, 2021, 11:31:18 AM »
I don't think playing 4 day games in July/August would make a huge difference because even then we won't get the same conditions as this. A turning pitch in the UK is normally easier to play on the back foot which is why most English players naturally revert to that as soon as the ball starts moving. What we need is for more players to be exposed to an array of conditions. My solution would be to arrange something that saw English county or regional teams (or even England b, c, d) touring every winter and playing games in as many conditions as possible. It would need to be centrally funded and I think it'd be a hard sell to get other countries to agree to it but a big part of the problem for England is we're the only country with a domestic 4 day game that encourages foreign players to join in, every other country has focused almost entirely on short form cricket for that.

 


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