The International Cricket Thread

[tomd2103]

Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.

Sorry, don't get that at all.  We were in control and had a very good chance of winning in the position we were in.  NZ would have had to go for any total batting last as they were 1-0 down in the series.  So basically we have squandered a match and series winning position.

That said, the Kiwis deserve massive credit for their 2nd innings batting performance, as I'm sure we had banked on rolling them out for a lot less.

Surely sport is about winning things and being successful?  Unless you are Blues or Newcastle of course and you measure success by how many people you take to Bruges / Trafalgar Square.

[Risso]

Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.

Sorry, don't get that at all.  We were in control and had a very good chance of winning in the position we were in.  NZ would have had to go for any total batting last as they were 1-0 down in the series.  So basically we have squandered a match and series winning position.

That said, the Kiwis deserve massive credit for their 2nd innings batting performance, as I'm sure we had banked on rolling them out for a lot less.

Surely sport is about winning things and being successful?  Unless you are Blues or Newcastle of course and you measure success by how many people you take to Bruges / Trafalgar Square.

Overall this new approach is proving highly successful, but that's not to say they'll win every game doing it. They'll just win far more than they lose, and all of the games will be exciting. Let's also not lose sight of the fact that New Zealand played very well and England didn't throw the game away by any stretch.

[paul_e]

A test match that will be talked about for many years, for many reasons. Surely that is a better outcome for test cricket than a boring draw and 1-0 series win for England.

Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.

Sorry Tom but whilst I get your point about us being control and going to to lose I still think both of these posts are correct. For the long term health of the format this match is huge and if the 'cost' is us drawing a 2 match series (the bigger problem is the lack of a 3 match to decide a winner) then it's one well worth paying for the long-term health of the game. This game could easily be the turning point for a format that has been on its knees for years.

I want tests that can go either way with spells of brilliance being decisive and if that means being braver (or reckless is you prefer) with key decisions then so be it. The games that people remember are ones like this or that Ashes game with a similar outcome, If we'd not enforced the follow on and set them a ~450 target the last day or so would've been all about defensive attrition and them holding on for a draw, by going this way we removed that option and it made for a genuine classic. Yes it might have made us more likely to win but it would've been a much duller experience.

[tomd2103]

A test match that will be talked about for many years, for many reasons. Surely that is a better outcome for test cricket than a boring draw and 1-0 series win for England.

Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.

Sorry Tom but whilst I get your point about us being control and going to to lose I still think both of these posts are correct. For the long term health of the format this match is huge and if the 'cost' is us drawing a 2 match series (the bigger problem is the lack of a 3 match to decide a winner) then it's one well worth paying for the long-term health of the game. This game could easily be the turning point for a format that has been on its knees for years.

I want tests that can go either way with spells of brilliance being decisive and if that means being braver (or reckless is you prefer) with key decisions then so be it. The games that people remember are ones like this or that Ashes game with a similar outcome, If we'd not enforced the follow on and set them a ~450 target the last day or so would've been all about defensive attrition and them holding on for a draw, by going this way we removed that option and it made for a genuine classic. Yes it might have made us more likely to win but it would've been a much duller experience.

Agree in general Paul, but not just in this specific circumstance.  They would have had to chase any total set as they were 1-0 down in the series.  If we wanted to make a game of it, we were in a position where we had time to set a total that would have given them something to chase, but would have pretty much safeguarded the series win for us.  As it was, New Zealand batted very well (especially Kane Williamson) and we went from being in a potentially dominant position to losing the game and not winning the series.

I'm all for the approach we have shown over the last 10 months and it has yielded some spectacular results, but feel that if we are to get back to being the number 1 test team in the world (which has been the stated aim) we might have to temper it a bit at times.

[Chris Smith]

I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.

As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.

[paul_e]

I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.

As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.

Yep, that run out is what turned the game for me. Losing brook without him facing a ball when he's the form middle order batsmen in the world was a massive blow. 15-20 runs of that pair in the middle and England win the game comfortably, that's why I can't get too annoyed at us losing this one. We should've won, we all know that, but I just can't get too annoyed at losing a match that ended like that because Whilst I'm absolutely an England fan I'm also a Test cricket fan and the sport needs matches like this one.

[tomd2103]

I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.

As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.

Don't want to keep going over it Chris, but we should have been in a position where Harry Brook getting run out didn't matter.  I think we probably misjudged New Zealand's batting line up and thought we would roll them out for either an innings win or would leave us needing a very small winning total. 

Didn't work out that way and NZ deserve the credit for getting that score in their 2nd innings. 

[LeeB]

This time last year we were getting hammered by what was effectively the WI B team whilst scoring about 2 an over, don't lose sleep over losing a game by 1 run

[Risso]

It's all a learning curve in any case. Maybe having lost this game in an enjoyable but fairly meaningless mini-series, they'll be wiser come the Ashes?

[Beard82]

I was listening to it when I went to bed - and woke up when we lost the 8th wicket and listened to it until the end.

Another amazing test match - bloody love test cricket - even worth putting up with talk sport for

I think its probably a helpful reminder to everyone that there mortal.  If anything I think it helps the prep for the ashes as confidence and belief in the squad will still be through the roof.

Cant wait for the ashes!

[olaftab]

This time last year we were getting hammered by what was effectively the WI B team whilst scoring about 2 an over, don't lose sleep over losing a game by 1 run

Yes miserable cautious  cricket and I had the painful pleasure of being there for all 3. 15 days of mind numbing boredom. Good job those islands have one or two other things to keep you sane.

[taylorsworkrate]

I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.

As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.

Yep, that run out is what turned the game for me. Losing brook without him facing a ball when he's the form middle order batsmen in the world was a massive blow. 15-20 runs of that pair in the middle and England win the game comfortably, that's why I can't get too annoyed at us losing this one. We should've won, we all know that, but I just can't get too annoyed at losing a match that ended like that because Whilst I'm absolutely an England fan I'm also a Test cricket fan and the sport needs matches like this one.

I disagree. Root and Stokes put on a 117 run partnership and were absolutely cruising to victory.  They were both a bit silly to fall into Wagners short ball trap.

I do absolutely love the approach of the team over the last year though

[Lsvilla]

This time last year we were getting hammered by what was effectively the WI B team whilst scoring about 2 an over, don't lose sleep over losing a game by 1 run

Yes miserable cautious  cricket and I had the painful pleasure of being there for all 3. 15 days of mind numbing boredom. Good job those islands have one or two other things to keep you sane.

This. And I can assure you being there for these two tests has been infinitely more enjoyable despite the result yesterday. This winter I've seen us win the T20 series in Pakistan and the World T20 in Oz followed by this so a pretty good return. A few days in Marlborough Sounds and then to get back to help Unai and the push for Europe.

[JD]

Last time England came over here for a test series the crowds weren't very big at all. At The Basin the first three days were sold out. I think that tells the story of what England now bring to test cricket.

[manic-road]

Bangladesh have decent recent home form, not looking an easy chase for England to get 210 runs.