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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1523266 times)

Offline Smithy

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14940 on: October 18, 2021, 05:46:24 PM »
I just checked - Danny Ings premier league record to date is 58 goals in 148 appearances. Only 3 of those while playing in a team you could call champions league challengers.  If he stays fit for the next three years it's not inconceivable he'll become part of the 100 club at premier league level - which is pretty good considering he spent three prime years at Liverpool and made 14 appearances.

Online Ian.

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14941 on: October 18, 2021, 05:48:49 PM »
I'm hoping once we have Bailey fit and Buendia playing regular Ings will be scoring for fun. Add a fit Traore and in form Watkins, ditch the experiment of three at the back and we'll be just fine.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14942 on: October 18, 2021, 05:53:25 PM »
I'm hoping once we have Bailey fit and Buendia playing regular Ings will be scoring for fun. Add a fit Traore and in form Watkins, ditch the experiment of three at the back and we'll be just fine.

Quite.

Anyway, I'm still fucked off about Saturday.

Online Ian.

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14943 on: October 18, 2021, 05:58:17 PM »
I'm hoping once we have Bailey fit and Buendia playing regular Ings will be scoring for fun. Add a fit Traore and in form Watkins, ditch the experiment of three at the back and we'll be just fine.

Quite.

Anyway, I'm still fucked off about Saturday.

Aint that true. All I've had from my Wolves supporting brother is all that mind the gap bollocks and a constant drip feed of other memes.

Offline Smithy

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14944 on: October 18, 2021, 06:06:22 PM »
I'm hoping once we have Bailey fit and Buendia playing regular Ings will be scoring for fun. Add a fit Traore and in form Watkins, ditch the experiment of three at the back and we'll be just fine.

Quite.

Anyway, I'm still fucked off about Saturday.

It's the sort of defeat that lingers, unfortunately.  I'm generally not one to dwell on defeats, but this has the taste of one I'll still be sore about come the end of the season, wondering where that extra three points might have got us. 

Offline Allan C

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14945 on: October 18, 2021, 08:23:29 PM »
I think we messed up signing Ings. Not that he’s not a top striker and that we needed to beef up the squad given we were fortunate Watkins got through the whole of last season, but he’s 29, at the peak of his career and is not going to want to rotate and sit on the bench.

It wasn’t a smart signing in the context of the shape Smith has always played.

I couldn't disagree more.  These pages were full of people complaining about our lack of depth up front last season, with really only Watkins as a tried and tested option for a central striker.  The fact that we're struggling to find a formation that lets us play both of our England forwards isn't an indication that signing him was a mistake, it's an indication we now have a squad with more good players than we've previously had, and we're still trying to find a way to use them all at the same time.

Centre-forward was a key squad weakness last season, and we strengthened that position about as well as we possibly could, given we don't offer European football.  Will Ings have a significant sell-on value? Almost certainly not, but that doesn't automatically make his signing a mistake.  At his current scoring rate he'll end up with 12-15 goals for the season - which is pretty good, and I think we'd all agree he's not played that well yet, either.

I think when Bailey is fit, and takes a wide-forward position, it'll likely be either Watkins OR Ings playing centrally, maybe Ollie wide left of the three.

It's also entirely possible that Ollie and Ings will just 'click' at some point.  But whatever happens, I don't view Ings as a bad signing at all.
Totally agree with this. For those banging on about Ings and Watkins not working I say let’s see how it goes when Watkins is back on form. At the moment he is clearly way out of form.

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14946 on: October 18, 2021, 09:25:24 PM »
If Watkins is out of form (I haven't seen us much recently) then he ought to be dropped now that we have alternatives.

Offline London Villan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14947 on: October 18, 2021, 09:31:43 PM »
Is he out of form or out of position?

Offline brontebilly

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14948 on: October 18, 2021, 10:30:54 PM »
Is he out of form or out of position?

Both...his touch was average enough anyway but he couldn't trap a bag of sand currently.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14949 on: October 19, 2021, 11:25:37 AM »
Have no issue with Ings coming in.

Start of the season with Ollie injured up to last 10 minutes v Brentford and Davis also out our only option would've been Wesley if we hadn't signed anyone and he's obviously been deemed not up to prem standard after his return hence his loan.

So very possible we wouldn't have beaten Newcastle and would've been proper Villa in crisis Mail special at the start of September.

I think this is a really good test for Dean now. When they're all fit eventually, how he juggles the options as the season goes on.

If he wants ambitions of managing at very top level he's going to have to solve it as managers like Klopp either create secure formations to get in the attacking players to make it effective or someone like Tuchel dosen't lose a wink of sleep dropping Werner to the bench for a spell of games.

Think at some point Dean will have to do that but we're not at that stage yet.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14950 on: October 19, 2021, 11:27:01 AM »
If Watkins is out of form (I haven't seen us much recently) then he ought to be dropped now that we have alternatives.

I think he'll start at Arsenal....but in a wide position. Makes sense if we're going 4-3-3 which I suspect we will.

Keep 3 central and maybe try Buendia out wide right as doubt we'll risk Bailey from the start.

Online Richard

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14951 on: October 19, 2021, 12:51:50 PM »
I agree SoccerHQ as the Arsenal right back looks dodgy, I'd play him wide left. Palace were unlucky last night, they only didnt win because they sat too far back for the last 15. If they had gone for it they could have easily won 3 1 as the Arse had gone really ragged.

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14952 on: October 19, 2021, 04:02:07 PM »
I’ve got no problems with Ings and never had any
Just the fact that we have top quality players in and around the squad now shows how much we have progressed

We have always had quite a number of players who could be described as weak links
Probably because we were moving up through the championship league and players just generally become not quite good enough anymore
Taylor Elmo Lansbury Hutton Hourahine Hogan some good servants but would be weak links now and were at times last season
We’ve hardly got any now where are you’re thinking oh shit we’re going to struggle in that dept today

I’m not a big fan of Hause so he would probably come into that category of needing to upgrade as I don’t think he will ever be a true top 6/8 performer, Fully accepting he has had Some decent games but has not got good footballing ability required
Mings is all over the place, He needs to improve or he will be in that category soon as well
El Gahzi blows hot and cold and is now not a first team starter or even a first sub
Steer not much confidence in him at second choice sub

That’s about it for me, Just goes to show how far we have come when I’m picking out decent players as our weaker links nowadays
All subjective of course and people will disagree,
 but I see it as a positive that’s why having a strong squad and adding players of the quality of Bailey Sansom Ings with Ramsey and other young players coming through all bodes well for the future


Offline supertom

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14953 on: October 19, 2021, 04:09:23 PM »
The 3-5-2 isn't working for me. Perennially we've seen this when we've tended to go there. It has fits and starts, or occasionally benefits us against particular opposition, but other games we look stifled and too reliant on Cash and Targett). I recall in Lamberts time he went to a back three, which got us a few results (including against Liverpool iirc) but then we had that three game run of annihilations (11 goals against??).
Ditto, Deano in his first season back tried it a few games. It looked okay here and there, but then he probably persisted with it a few games too many as a long term option.

Basically, it boils down to a change in your approach after you've signed players to play in a different way altogether. The three at the back hasn't particularly benefitted us defensively on the whole. There's been too many games we've huffed and puffed going forward too.
Douglas has flirted with potentially being a playmaker, but flirting's all he's done. Ramsey has done well largely but is a kid. Beundia doesn't look entirely right in the 8 role.

I appreciated if we want two up top, a 4-2-2-2 might leave us light in midfield, but if we're gonna play five, and end up losing the midfield anyway, because we then lack options in wide up front, then I'd rather have McGinn plus one anchoring, with two wide players ahead. Personally, I think we need to look at one through the middle up top though. Ings and Watkins in a two isn't working. So you either drop one, of play Watkins on the left as an outside in (which he's done before).

We've had too many good attacking players on the bench to carry on a formation that's been indifferent and it's pulling us away from the kind of way Deano has built his squad up to play (as the primary method). I think 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 is the way to go. I don't think it's coming off for Doug at the moment (and granted the last game, jet lag was a big factor). We can't rely on Ramsey just yet. I'd like Marvellous to sit and do the donkey work and give McGinn more license forward.

Most importantly, composure. We need to seriously work on our composure on the ball. We get the ball and we're straight into 100mph, and barely string two passes together rushing it forward. We need someone who can slow a game and dictate things a bit. Maybe in pockets of space between defense and attack, that could be Beundia. As an 8, probably not. Douglas is getting lackadaisical for me.

I'd be looking to get AEG and Traore more involved again. A little mercurial, until Bailey is fit and ready again. Bailey looks great. AEG and Traore scored 17 between them last season and ultimately, we're not creating enough clear cut chances.

Finally...Mings needs dropping on current form. Hause I think deserves a spell in the side alongside Konsa. I don't particularly think it'll weaken us anymore defensively, if anything a back three can become tactically confusing because of that third man, and Mings loses focus too often. He needs a spell out to reevaluate and work on his game and his focus. Axel has struggled a little in the three too. Maybe given he's having to take the central role.

Offline Russ aka Big Nose

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14954 on: October 19, 2021, 09:46:53 PM »
For me the jury is still out in terms of whether it makes sense to play three at the back and also whether two strikers is the best way to accommodate the better quality players we now have.

But two things I'm certain about:
1. We  need to be able to be at least competent playing more than one formation and that hasn't been the case for years (so a positive for the manager and his coaches)
2. Dean Smith has easily enough credit in the bank (for me) for him to explore making one or both options work.

One other thing, get the right defensive CM and we could successfully exploit 4-1-3-2. That would still allow the fullbacks (especially Cash) to get forward as none of our attacking wide players are out and out wingers - other than perhaps AEG and he is now a back-up option for me.

 


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