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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1064761 times)

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14865 on: October 17, 2021, 07:15:57 PM »
I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

This kind of thinking scares the shit out of me. It's something we've done under Ellis, the latter years of Lerner and of course Xia with Steve Bruce. We no longer have deadwood owners who are happy just to see us in the PL. If we can't be ambitious now we never will be. Dean inherited the most expensive assembled squad in the history of the Championship, he's been given more money than almost every PL manager since our return. Of course he had a major rebuild to do but he was supported to the tune of close to £150m and despite staying up by the skin of our teeth it took the Covid break for him to find the time to reorganise the defence that was the second worst in the league.

As I said yesterday, I love everything about him and he's absolutely perfect for us with one exception; the football. Maybe I'm not seeing it but three years in and I'm still struggling to see how he wants us to play other than work hard, run around a lot and get McGinn to use his bum. The other obvious thing is we generally do well against the top teams when we press and counter yet we really struggle against the midtable/lower teams.

Admittedly, 8 games in is nothing and it really shouldn't be a concern but we still have the post-Christmas record from last season lingering in the background.

Yes, well if you read the rest of what Iíve posted rather than focusing on that bit it has a much different Ďkind of thinkingí to what youíre suggesting.

No offence intended Mr G but the post was what you think the board could be thinking followed by what you would do. I don't want us 'drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder' before taking action. Losing our best players, failing to attract new ones, losing the momentum that's been building since we got relegated and our owners losing interest. It's the worst possible scenario on so many levels, it fact it would be negligent of the board to wait so long.

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14866 on: October 17, 2021, 07:23:57 PM »
If we want to keep Konsa, SJM  Emi you donít wait until the vultures are circling.
I don think Smith is in any immediate danger but I donít think he will survive a run like last season.

Offline danno

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14867 on: October 17, 2021, 07:30:52 PM »
It may have been the most expensive squad in the championship, but was it a good one?  How many of those players did we recoup money on?  How many fit central defenders did we even have when Smith took over? Our GK situation? Etc

He has had a lot of money to spend since promotion, that is fair. But that is probably in part due to the fact he has had to buy assemble practically a whole team to replace the expensive duds (Hogan Lansbury etc) and all the out of contract players who left.

I can understand the disquiet, but I look at the squad and still think this can turn very very quickly. Look at Tottenham.  Top of the league, then a disaster and Nuno is on borrowed time, now fifth. All within eight games.

Offline Clark W Griswold

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14868 on: October 17, 2021, 07:39:56 PM »
It depends. If there is real ambition from the owners then despite all of the good stuff heís done, the jury is out as to whether he has the ability to compete with the leagues top coaches. If the intention is just to sit in mid table then so far heís shown that heís good enough to do that now the squad has been developed sufficiently. And if it is the case we owe him the chance to keep his job considering heís got us there. I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

From the owners poi t of view they will want more ethan that. They will progress each season. So far he has done that. This season looks as if he has a lot to do to get higher than last season. I hope he can but think he has reached his top of his ability as a manager, not just on yesterday though.

Ok, but how do you know what the owners want? They say this and that but when you look at what has been done in the last transfer window it was debateable whether the squad had improved. Yes Grealish threw a spanner in the works and weíll never know what we would have done had he stayed put, whether a couple of those attacking players would have come in for example. But was it Smith that decided what we did? Was he restricted? It wasnít that difficult to arrive where we did last season with what was spent and yes, Smith might struggle to push on further even with backing but I think the squad we have is by no means guaranteed for top half and if weíre not going to see the ambition from above we might as well stick with him. Time will tell on that.
I think most people would look at the squad and think it is top half.  We have two proven PL Strikers, Luiz and McGinn are both considered regularly linked to "bigger" clubs.  Mings is an England International and Targett, Konsa are regularly tipped as "best non capped" players, and EMI is one of the goalkeepers in the world.  Trorae and El Ghazi both scored 7 or 8 goals last season, and Baily and Emi2 are no mugs.  Im not saying were top 6 - but I think finishing below 10th would be a poor result.

Ok Bud but how many of the current squad have played regularly in a top half PL team?
Martinez (who is brilliant by the way) was part of a squad, Luiz never played for his and Young did 3-4 years ago.
So Iím not sure how you can conclude that theyíre good enough. I will say weíve had bad luck with injuries and that 3 out of the 4 defenders who played well last season have dipped a bit in form and this doesnít help.
Personally I think with everyone hitting form and really good luck with injuries then 9th or 10th is possible but itís a very big if.

My issue with him at the moment is this fucking about with the formation.

Offline RamboandBruno

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14869 on: October 17, 2021, 07:48:38 PM »
It depends. If there is real ambition from the owners then despite all of the good stuff heís done, the jury is out as to whether he has the ability to compete with the leagues top coaches. If the intention is just to sit in mid table then so far heís shown that heís good enough to do that now the squad has been developed sufficiently. And if it is the case we owe him the chance to keep his job considering heís got us there. I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

From the owners poi t of view they will want more ethan that. They will progress each season. So far he has done that. This season looks as if he has a lot to do to get higher than last season. I hope he can but think he has reached his top of his ability as a manager, not just on yesterday though.

Ok, but how do you know what the owners want? They say this and that but when you look at what has been done in the last transfer window it was debateable whether the squad had improved. Yes Grealish threw a spanner in the works and weíll never know what we would have done had he stayed put, whether a couple of those attacking players would have come in for example. But was it Smith that decided what we did? Was he restricted? It wasnít that difficult to arrive where we did last season with what was spent and yes, Smith might struggle to push on further even with backing but I think the squad we have is by no means guaranteed for top half and if weíre not going to see the ambition from above we might as well stick with him. Time will tell on that.
I think most people would look at the squad and think it is top half.  We have two proven PL Strikers, Luiz and McGinn are both considered regularly linked to "bigger" clubs.  Mings is an England International and Targett, Konsa are regularly tipped as "best non capped" players, and EMI is one of the goalkeepers in the world.  Trorae and El Ghazi both scored 7 or 8 goals last season, and Baily and Emi2 are no mugs.  Im not saying were top 6 - but I think finishing below 10th would be a poor result.

Ok Bud but how many of the current squad have played regularly in a top half PL team?
Martinez (who is brilliant by the way) was part of a squad, Luiz never played for his and Young did 3-4 years ago.
So Iím not sure how you can conclude that theyíre good enough. I will say weíve had bad luck with injuries and that 3 out of the 4 defenders who played well last season have dipped a bit in form and this doesnít help.
Personally I think with everyone hitting form and really good luck with injuries then 9th or 10th is possible but itís a very big if.

My issue with him at the moment is this fucking about with the formation.

The formation i agree with you. When Bailey and Traore are fit, along with Beundia, it will seem ridiculous to continue with Targett and Cash as our main attacking outlets in the wide positions.

However, i dont think saying 9th or 10th is a big if, is widely pessimistic, even given the aftershocks of yesterday.

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14870 on: October 17, 2021, 07:56:43 PM »
All I can say is if with the squad we have got you think the manager is only good enough to get 10th or 11th out of it then you donít think a lot of him and he needs to go ASAP

Offline passport1

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14871 on: October 17, 2021, 08:03:35 PM »
He's simply not good enough. When the owners decide that is conjecture  but he is nowhere near the level of manager for their stated ambition.

Offline Mister E

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14872 on: October 17, 2021, 08:22:44 PM »
I really hope he can turn it round.  Think he has so many good qualities - just something doesn't seem quite right since the end of last season...
You're right: we had that clusterfuck close-season where we were given the runaround by Joe and his agent, and we didn't get a proper set of friendlies in to test the players. Add to that the fact that Ings was probably a panic buy, offering £8-10m over the odds for a player in his last year (not that I'm complaining about having the player here), and Bailey's transfer seemed very, very rushed (remember that bizarre player-announcement?!).
Smith putting a 3-5-2 out a few weeks' ago was lauded as a masterstroke. Since then, it has outlived its welcome because it seems to have become the go-to formation rather than one of a number of flexible approaches.
Yesterday, 3-5-2 got us 2-0 against indifferent opposition. When Luiz tired and Buendia needed to go off, the obvious thing to have done would be to go 4-3-3, playing 4-5-1 without the ball (Ings Watkins and JPB or AEG up front). This would have nullified Semedo who was getting forward far too much.
So, for me, Smith's in-game tactical decision-making is in question.
That's without going into the fuckwittery plaguing Mings and Tuanzebe yesterday.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14873 on: October 17, 2021, 08:26:48 PM »
It may have been the most expensive squad in the championship, but was it a good one?  How many of those players did we recoup money on?  How many fit central defenders did we even have when Smith took over? Our GK situation? Etc

He has had a lot of money to spend since promotion, that is fair. But that is probably in part due to the fact he has had to buy assemble practically a whole team to replace the expensive duds (Hogan Lansbury etc) and all the out of contract players who left.

I can understand the disquiet, but I look at the squad and still think this can turn very very quickly. Look at Tottenham.  Top of the league, then a disaster and Nuno is on borrowed time, now fifth. All within eight games.

Agree, Danno, we've got a great squad together and Dean deserves heaps of praise for the recruitment. He also has managed to get the attitude right amongst the whole squad, not an easy thing to do as you build up both the numbers and quality.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14874 on: October 17, 2021, 08:27:21 PM »
Oh how different this place is within a couple of weeks. Beat Man Utd in their backyard for the first time in more than a decade and we're all happy, play really badly for 10 minutes and it's the worst thing in the world.

My son said asked on the way hike why we'd bothered going to lose like that. And when I asked him how he was he said 'absolutely rubbish', which I guess sums it all up.

If course a defeat like that is of concern, and certainly if it continues there's a big problem, but we're not there yet, we're still a work in progress.

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14875 on: October 17, 2021, 08:55:45 PM »
It feels like weíre going backwards. 3 goals conceded three times so far this season, no set formation and the sort of soft underbelly that we showed too often in our first season back.

Offline Richard E

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14876 on: October 17, 2021, 08:58:38 PM »
He's simply not good enough. When the owners decide that is conjecture  but he is nowhere near the level of manager for their stated ambition.

Iíd rather this wasnít true, but I suspect that it is.

Online TonyD

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14877 on: October 17, 2021, 09:02:34 PM »
You can have a great squad, experiment with formations (and rightly so) and be a great bloke.   

But if you canít more times than not - be able to make the right subs and changes at the right times - then you wonít win anything.   

Game management is a basic requirement. 

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14878 on: October 17, 2021, 09:30:05 PM »
Itís dead simple for me
Weíve got a squad capable of finishing in the top 8 imo
We have an infrastructure and investment programme capable of the same
we have a manager who will be given time to deliver just that

The moment our ambition is less than that we might as well pack up
As Iíve said before people who think Dean Smith is only capable of 10/11 obviously donít think heís much good
Iím hoping heís better than that we shall see if not we will need someone that is

Dumbing down,Setting a low bar, making excuses should be over
itís time to deliver this season, I still think we can do it



Online Rory

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14879 on: October 17, 2021, 10:02:38 PM »
Just my opinion, but I think we need to show patience for now. We aren't getting relegated. If progress hasn't been good enough, then as soon as the season finishes, we say thanks Dean, but we're moving on, and back his successor to the hilt.

I don't think he's faultless, and I have seen enough to be fairly sure he isn't the manager to establish us in the top 6/8. But despite some frustrating runs and the odd very poor result, in the grand scheme of things he hasn't failed us yet, and has improved us year on year.

If this season turns out to be a disappointment, it's fair to say he has had backing and had time and we need a change to progress. But I think he deserves a graceful transition, and deserves not to be sacked mid-season like some of the wastes of skin that have managed us in the past.

I know many will disagree, but I think if this weekend was his last as our manager, overall he would've done a very good job. Yesterday was a very poor result, but to bin him now would be reactionary, classless and a mistake, in my view.

 


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