Dean Smith - Confirmed

[Risso]

There's also more to the job than just the results, the spirit of togetherness, professionalism and improvement he's fostered at the club isn't to be sniffed at. The players clearly buy into him.

I'd have said the same of Pochettinho at Spurs, and throwing him out to bring in 'proven' Mourinho has clearly chucked everything they'd built out the window. Lol.

Given the number or erm, incidents that young Jacky Grealish has been involved in, I'd go easy on the professionalism! Togetherness, certainly.

[ChicagoLion]

Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.

This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second.

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.

Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.

Because it only considers the negative and not the positive? If he's taken us as far as he can then the opinion is that he can't improve us any more, he improved us in 4 days judging by the last 2 results.

I often think that in general terms, on this forum and beyond that given the presence of the glamorous billionaires that own us, having a ginger Brummie from Great Barr isn't "sexy" enough for some fans and that erodes the patience in the light of poor results. There may also be the feeling that he is given too much slack by others due to his support for the club and that this shouldn't cloud the judgement of his ability, which of course is quite correct, but that shouldn't haste his departure either.

Absolute rubbish. The people that have been critical, call out their genuine concerns regarding his abilities.
Ultimately it is the results that call in to question his suitability to be a Top Coach and we have been on a poor run of form compounded by the fact that we have been losing games from winning positions.
Any Villa manager would be getting criticised based on Smiths recent record.

[Toronto Villa]

Sorry Nev, but without Grealish Dean Smith has a lot of question marks. Just because yesterday was very good doesn’t suddenly change a lot of what we’ve seen. Look, I don’t want him fired. I want him here long term if he is able to prove he can continue to improve and play a different way and win when his best player isn’t in the side. How many times has he been able to do that? A couple of times I think in two divisions. So for me, loved yesterday, have enjoyed much of the season but in equal part there is lots for him to do to convince he is the long term answer at the club.

[andyh]

Sorry Nev, but without Grealish Dean Smith has a lot of question marks. Just because yesterday was very good doesn’t suddenly change a lot of what we’ve seen. Look, I don’t want him fired. I want him here long term if he is able to prove he can continue to improve and play a different way and win when his best player isn’t in the side. How many times has he been able to do that? A couple of times I think in two divisions. So for me, loved yesterday, have enjoyed much of the season but in equal part there is lots for him to do to convince he is the long term answer at the club.

I tend to agree.
I too don’t want him sacked but I recognise that we got promoted on the back of a 10 match winning run, coinciding with Jack came back from a long injury.
We stayed up last year not least because Jack dragged us over the line.
We had a magnificent start to the season due to Jack being world class, and then dropped dramatically with him being injured.

It can’t all be coincidental, can it?

Dean’s success is built on Jacks ability.

[Nev]

Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.

This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second.

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.

Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.

Because it only considers the negative and not the positive? If he's taken us as far as he can then the opinion is that he can't improve us any more, he improved us in 4 days judging by the last 2 results.

I often think that in general terms, on this forum and beyond that given the presence of the glamorous billionaires that own us, having a ginger Brummie from Great Barr isn't "sexy" enough for some fans and that erodes the patience in the light of poor results. There may also be the feeling that he is given too much slack by others due to his support for the club and that this shouldn't cloud the judgement of his ability, which of course is quite correct, but that shouldn't haste his departure either.

Absolute rubbish. The people that have been critical, call out their genuine concerns regarding his abilities.
Ultimately it is the results that call in to question his suitability to be a Top Coach and we have been on a poor run of form compounded by the fact that we have been losing games from winning positions.
Any Villa manager would be getting criticised based on Smiths recent record.

I have no problem with criticism, my point is regarding people who think he should be removed now. The criticism, much like the praise, is deserved and I don't know if he will  make a top class manager or coach, he looks out of his depth one minute and perfectly adept in the top flight the next, but, and for the umpteenth time, I think he deserves to remain in the role, criticism and all.

[ChicagoLion]

Nev I think even the most Ardent critics have said no point in changing Smith unless its for someone a lot better.
Some people seem to take any criticism of Smith personally and that's when the vitriol kicks in.

[pauliewalnuts]

I've got a lot of criticism for him over the second half of the season but I don't want him sacked.

In the same way my Mrs annoys me but I have a recurring dream about feeding her into a wood chipper machine don't want to get shot of her.

[Hockley Lion]

Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.

This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second.

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.

Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.

Because it only considers the negative and not the positive? If he's taken us as far as he can then the opinion is that he can't improve us any more, he improved us in 4 days judging by the last 2 results.

I often think that in general terms, on this forum and beyond that given the presence of the glamorous billionaires that own us, having a ginger Brummie from Great Barr isn't "sexy" enough for some fans and that erodes the patience in the light of poor results. There may also be the feeling that he is given too much slack by others due to his support for the club and that this shouldn't cloud the judgement of his ability, which of course is quite correct, but that shouldn't haste his departure either.

Absolute rubbish. The people that have been critical, call out their genuine concerns regarding his abilities.
Ultimately it is the results that call in to question his suitability to be a Top Coach and we have been on a poor run of form compounded by the fact that we have been losing games from winning positions.
Any Villa manager would be getting criticised based on Smiths recent record.

It depends on what you mean by recent though doesn't it. People choosing to be critical are selecting a chosen series of games that back up their fear that it's all going down the toilet. People who aren't being critical are looking at a different series of games which concludes a more favourable view. I'm not being critical I'm just saying I see it differently. Last night's result for instance has changed the "recent" perspective of Dean Smith's abilities a little in his favour.

[sickbeggar]

I think if you did bin Smith, then replacing him with a manager who can get us winning without Jack as much as with, may be a bit of a tall order. Teams playing worse with best player missing seems to be a common coaching deficiency even amongst the real managerial legends.

[Drummond]

Nev I think even the most Ardent critics have said no point in changing Smith unless its for someone a lot better.
Some people seem to take any criticism of Smith personally and that's when the vitriol kicks in.

I agree to an extent. However, there are those that seem to criticise at every given opportunity too and refuse to see or acknowledge the positives.

[paul_e]

Nev I think even the most Ardent critics have said no point in changing Smith unless its for someone a lot better.
Some people seem to take any criticism of Smith personally and that's when the vitriol kicks in.

I agree to an extent. However, there are those that seem to criticise at every given opportunity too and refuse to see or acknowledge the positives.

There's also too many that go very quiet when they can't criticise him (in general not just on here). It's those people that give the impression that they're just waiting for him to get sacked so they can tell people they called it all along. That's not to say you can't be critical, just that it doesn't give a great impression if that's all you do. I understand it though, most people probably thought that was me when Bruce was manager and it's a fair accusation, I just think the circumstances are very different and Smith has a decent rep with fans of his previous clubs, Bruce always had a stench of failure behind him and fans of almost all of his former clubs think he left them worse than he found them.

[SaddVillan]

With  one game to go, let's have a look at how last season and this season compare:

2019-20   2020-19  Change
P       38        37
W       9         15          +6
D        8           7           -1
L        21       15           -6
F       41        53        +11
A       67        45         -22
Gd    -26        +8         34 goal swing to the better
Pts    35        52       +17

Posn  17th   11th    +6

We've increased points won by 48%,  conceded a third fewer goals and scored c.30% more.

So what people are complaining about?

The things that the team and management can take away from this season as learning points:

1. There are no easy points in the Premier League
2. On any given day anybody can be beaten
3. Almost every mistake can and will be punished.
4. You've got to be "on it" from the first to the last whistle.
5. You can't afford to carry many players performing at 60-75%. Even one is too many.
6. The squad lacks quality in certain positions as well as in strength in depth.
7. This meant that we found it difficult to swap out players in some positions who were performing below par.
8. Some players undoubtedly found the requirement to maintain full concentration for 38 x 90 a difficult step up.

These problems need to be addressed in transfer window and at Bodymoor,  and in addition the experience gained across the squad this season should help too.

We lost too many points from winning positions and whilst a Europa place would have been a great achievement compared to last season, it would I think, end up screwing us up royally next year.

The frequency of the Thursday - Sunday - Sunday cycle of games is a burden that our current squad just wouldn't be capable of bearing. We'd struggle in Europe and have a squad that would be totally knackered by Christmas. Our league form would suffer, confidence would go with it and the boo boys would be out in force.

Steady continued progress, whilst less glamorous is more sustainable in the long term and more likely to bring us the success we long for.

[Allan C]

Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.

This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second.

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.

Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.

Because it only considers the negative and not the positive? If he's taken us as far as he can then the opinion is that he can't improve us any more, he improved us in 4 days judging by the last 2 results.

I often think that in general terms, on this forum and beyond that given the presence of the glamorous billionaires that own us, having a ginger Brummie from Great Barr isn't "sexy" enough for some fans and that erodes the patience in the light of poor results. There may also be the feeling that he is given too much slack by others due to his support for the club and that this shouldn't cloud the judgement of his ability, which of course is quite correct, but that shouldn't haste his departure either.

Absolute rubbish. The people that have been critical, call out their genuine concerns regarding his abilities.
Ultimately it is the results that call in to question his suitability to be a Top Coach and we have been on a poor run of form compounded by the fact that we have been losing games from winning positions.
Any Villa manager would be getting criticised based on Smiths recent record.

It depends on what you mean by recent though doesn't it. People choosing to be critical are selecting a chosen series of games that back up their fear that it's all going down the toilet. People who aren't being critical are looking at a different series of games which concludes a more favourable view. I'm not being critical I'm just saying I see it differently. Last night's result for instance has changed the "recent" perspective of Dean Smith's abilities a little in his favour.

You’re right HL. I’ve stepped back and looked at the season as a whole. Without doubt we were better, week by week in the first half of the season, not so good on a weekly basis in the second. But in all honesty, we have looked really poor in only a handful of games. In most games we have had good spells and been unlucky with decisions in others. Smith shouldn’t be exempt from criticism and he hasn’t been not least on this and other threads but he’s relatively inexperienced compared with other PL coaches and he’s learning. But as I see it, the improvements made are good, in players and league position. What we need now is investment in players of equal quality to Grealish as the under achieving players are weeded out.

[Allan C]

With  one game to go, let's have a look at how last season and this season compare:

2019-20   2020-19  Change
P       38        37
W       9         15          +6
D        8           7           -1
L        21       15           -6
F       41        53        +11
A       67        45         -22
Gd    -26        +8         34 goal swing to the better
Pts    35        52       +17

Posn  17th   11th    +6

We've increased points won by 48%,  conceded a third fewer goals and scored c.30% more.

So what people are complaining about?

The things that the team and management can take away from this season as learning points:

1. There are no easy points in the Premier League
2. On any given day anybody can be beaten
3. Almost every mistake can and will be punished.
4. You've got to be "on it" from the first to the last whistle.
5. You can't afford to carry many players performing at 60-75%. Even one is too many.
6. The squad lacks quality in certain positions as well as in strength in depth.
7. This meant that we found it difficult to swap out players in some positions who were performing below par.
8. Some players undoubtedly found the requirement to maintain full concentration for 38 x 90 a difficult step up.

These problems need to be addressed in transfer window and at Bodymoor,  and in addition the experience gained across the squad this season should help too.

We lost too many points from winning positions and whilst a Europa place would have been a great achievement compared to last season, it would I think, end up screwing us up royally next year.

The frequency of the Thursday - Sunday - Sunday cycle of games is a burden that our current squad just wouldn't be capable of bearing. We'd struggle in Europe and have a squad that would be totally knackered by Christmas. Our league form would suffer, confidence would go with it and the boo boys would be out in force.

Steady continued progress, whilst less glamorous is more sustainable in the long term and more likely to bring us the success we long for.

Absolutely spot on. A great post which lays bare the comparisons from this season and last. You’re also spot on with the Europa League assessment

[Nunkin1965]

It's the nature of us football supporting beasts.
We're never entirely happy.
No matter how well its going there will always be some itch to scratch.