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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 890684 times)

Offline Allan C

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12720 on: May 12, 2021, 12:59:36 PM »
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
Itís been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the ďfirst teamĒ and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. Thatís a good return in my book

Fatigue in the squad was a consequence of Smith failing to rotate the squad in the first half of the season, see JG and MON also. Often he didn't even use his subs properly in games we were coasting to wins. Post covid break, the 6 games in 18 days schedule didn't help obviously but Deano infamously stated at the time that he didn't believe in player fatigue. I'm hoping some important lessons were learned for next season.

In some ways we have been somewhat fortunate with injuries this season. Cash, Barkley and Grealish are the only regulars to have picked up significant injuries. Arguably with Grealish moving into Barkley's spot we didn't miss him all that much anyway. No changes required at GK, CB, LB, CM, FW all season really.
And that is precisely my point. The deeper squad wasnít/isnít good enough to rest the key players when they needed resting. Yes weíve been fortunate with injuries thank god but arguably the best player in the league is some injury, Cash too has been excellent and a significant loss when he was out. Iíll agree that substitutions have been poor at times but heís learning. With better squad players and Smith taking on board his short comings in that area there will be improvement

Offline Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12721 on: May 12, 2021, 01:31:04 PM »
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.

Yeah but he also said Grealish would be back soon. If you don't believe him in that, why believe him on Covid?

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12722 on: May 12, 2021, 01:33:57 PM »
Every club except probably City and United had a big drop off in form in the middle of the season.
They were all losing to each other.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12723 on: May 12, 2021, 01:46:30 PM »
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

We lost 4/5 in October and November.

Offline brontebilly

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12724 on: May 12, 2021, 01:55:23 PM »
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
Itís been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the ďfirst teamĒ and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. Thatís a good return in my book

Fatigue in the squad was a consequence of Smith failing to rotate the squad in the first half of the season, see JG and MON also. Often he didn't even use his subs properly in games we were coasting to wins. Post covid break, the 6 games in 18 days schedule didn't help obviously but Deano infamously stated at the time that he didn't believe in player fatigue. I'm hoping some important lessons were learned for next season.

In some ways we have been somewhat fortunate with injuries this season. Cash, Barkley and Grealish are the only regulars to have picked up significant injuries. Arguably with Grealish moving into Barkley's spot we didn't miss him all that much anyway. No changes required at GK, CB, LB, CM, FW all season really.
And that is precisely my point. The deeper squad wasnít/isnít good enough to rest the key players when they needed resting. Yes weíve been fortunate with injuries thank god but arguably the best player in the league is some injury, Cash too has been excellent and a significant loss when he was out. Iíll agree that substitutions have been poor at times but heís learning. With better squad players and Smith taking on board his short comings in that area there will be improvement

The likes of Hourihane and Guilbert were more than competent enough to fill in as squad players I'd argue. Smith lost them through mismanagement, there were a number of games where their direct replacements Barkley and Cash were having stinkers but in Barkley's case he was left on against likes of Leeds and Soton. Think Elmo came on for Cash in a couple of those games. We all like Elmo but he has very much had his day at the top level.

I don't think it's a simple as we need better squad players, as we saw in MONs time if you don't use them regularly they become very expensive reserves. Think Deano if his quotes are anything to go by is pretty old school when it comes to players retaining the shirt and use of subs. I think that simply has to change for next season to avoid another March collapse.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12725 on: May 12, 2021, 02:07:27 PM »
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
Itís been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the ďfirst teamĒ and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. Thatís a good return in my book

Fatigue in the squad was a consequence of Smith failing to rotate the squad in the first half of the season, see JG and MON also. Often he didn't even use his subs properly in games we were coasting to wins. Post covid break, the 6 games in 18 days schedule didn't help obviously but Deano infamously stated at the time that he didn't believe in player fatigue. I'm hoping some important lessons were learned for next season.

In some ways we have been somewhat fortunate with injuries this season. Cash, Barkley and Grealish are the only regulars to have picked up significant injuries. Arguably with Grealish moving into Barkley's spot we didn't miss him all that much anyway. No changes required at GK, CB, LB, CM, FW all season really.
And that is precisely my point. The deeper squad wasnít/isnít good enough to rest the key players when they needed resting. Yes weíve been fortunate with injuries thank god but arguably the best player in the league is some injury, Cash too has been excellent and a significant loss when he was out. Iíll agree that substitutions have been poor at times but heís learning. With better squad players and Smith taking on board his short comings in that area there will be improvement

The likes of Hourihane and Guilbert were more than competent enough to fill in as squad players I'd argue. Smith lost them through mismanagement, there were a number of games where their direct replacements Barkley and Cash were having stinkers but in Barkley's case he was left on against likes of Leeds and Soton. Think Elmo came on for Cash in a couple of those games. We all like Elmo but he has very much had his day at the top level.

I don't think it's a simple as we need better squad players, as we saw in MONs time if you don't use them regularly they become very expensive reserves. Think Deano if his quotes are anything to go by is pretty old school when it comes to players retaining the shirt and use of subs. I think that simply has to change for next season to avoid another March collapse.
I think his use of the squad is his biggest failing and that includes his piss poor use of subs during the game.

Offline Villan82

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12726 on: May 12, 2021, 03:09:14 PM »
I don't understand why he let Hourihane and Freddy go.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12727 on: May 12, 2021, 03:20:30 PM »
Because they wanted to play and Smith couldn't guarantee it.

Hourihane and Smith have said as much. Hourihane was widely regarded by most on here as not being good enough for where we want to be and we did the decent thing and let him go, I'd argue that he's hardly been missed and wouldn't have got many games at all.

With Guilbert, the same applies, Cash has come in, done really well indeed and let's face it he would have been ever-present barring injury and/or suspension. We had Elmo who is an adequate (at this point) back up and who wouldn't have wanted to go on loan and being the model pro he is was quite happy to help out where he could.

Plus moving them both on has helped the wage bill without causing much, if any, detriment to the team.

Offline Allan C

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12728 on: May 12, 2021, 03:23:10 PM »
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
Itís been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the ďfirst teamĒ and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. Thatís a good return in my book

Fatigue in the squad was a consequence of Smith failing to rotate the squad in the first half of the season, see JG and MON also. Often he didn't even use his subs properly in games we were coasting to wins. Post covid break, the 6 games in 18 days schedule didn't help obviously but Deano infamously stated at the time that he didn't believe in player fatigue. I'm hoping some important lessons were learned for next season.

In some ways we have been somewhat fortunate with injuries this season. Cash, Barkley and Grealish are the only regulars to have picked up significant injuries. Arguably with Grealish moving into Barkley's spot we didn't miss him all that much anyway. No changes required at GK, CB, LB, CM, FW all season really.
And that is precisely my point. The deeper squad wasnít/isnít good enough to rest the key players when they needed resting. Yes weíve been fortunate with injuries thank god but arguably the best player in the league is some injury, Cash too has been excellent and a significant loss when he was out. Iíll agree that substitutions have been poor at times but heís learning. With better squad players and Smith taking on board his short comings in that area there will be improvement

The likes of Hourihane and Guilbert were more than competent enough to fill in as squad players I'd argue. Smith lost them through mismanagement, there were a number of games where their direct replacements Barkley and Cash were having stinkers but in Barkley's case he was left on against likes of Leeds and Soton. Think Elmo came on for Cash in a couple of those games. We all like Elmo but he has very much had his day at the top level.

I don't think it's a simple as we need better squad players, as we saw in MONs time if you don't use them regularly they become very expensive reserves. Think Deano if his quotes are anything to go by is pretty old school when it comes to players retaining the shirt and use of subs. I think that simply has to change for next season to avoid another March collapse.
Sorry but I have to disagree in the case of Hourihane and Guilbert being competent replacements. In any case, itís not ďexpensive reservesĒ we need but a squad that will allow proper team rotation which we certainly donít have at the moment. Hourihane definitely isnít that in my view.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12729 on: May 13, 2021, 02:25:10 AM »
Hourhane's a perfect sub when you need a goal with 30 mins to go.

Offline Mister E

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12730 on: May 13, 2021, 08:04:43 AM »
Decisions were made based on the assumption that Cash would have a consistently-good introduction and assimilation into the Premier League, and that Barkley would find consistency and fitness from the get-go.
So, the question is: do we think those assumptions were valid, at the time both Guilbert and Hourihane were allowed to go on loan? - the club obviously thought so. Hindsight might raise a questionmark over it.
I certainly think that Cash would have benefitted from being given some games off, on the bench, since the step-up for him has been quite a steep one. I'm less sure about the Barkley situation because Conor had not really proved himself at this level. Maybe they thought that Sanson would show himself to be more of a Barkley alternative?

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12731 on: May 13, 2021, 08:28:02 AM »
Decisions were made based on the assumption that Cash would have a consistently-good introduction and assimilation into the Premier League, and that Barkley would find consistency and fitness from the get-go.
So, the question is: do we think those assumptions were valid, at the time both Guilbert and Hourihane were allowed to go on loan? - the club obviously thought so. Hindsight might raise a questionmark over it.
I certainly think that Cash would have benefitted from being given some games off, on the bench, since the step-up for him has been quite a steep one. I'm less sure about the Barkley situation because Conor had not really proved himself at this level. Maybe they thought that Sanson would show himself to be more of a Barkley alternative?
They have spent a boat load of money replacing Hourihane who was not quite good enough at this level with Barkley who is a spent force, at least Conor provides a decent free kick and you know he is trying.
Guilbert is a strange one, looks like he has been discarded ( so much for the improving players argument)
Sanson , I know its early but has not contributed more than Hourihane would probably less..
Our problems and recent poor form is mainly down to the midfield and Smith has been unable to solve this.

Online algy

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12732 on: May 13, 2021, 08:28:06 AM »
Decisions were made based on the assumption that Cash would have a consistently-good introduction and assimilation into the Premier League, and that Barkley would find consistency and fitness from the get-go.
So, the question is: do we think those assumptions were valid, at the time both Guilbert and Hourihane were allowed to go on loan? - the club obviously thought so. Hindsight might raise a questionmark over it.
I certainly think that Cash would have benefitted from being given some games off, on the bench, since the step-up for him has been quite a steep one. I'm less sure about the Barkley situation because Conor had not really proved himself at this level. Maybe they thought that Sanson would show himself to be more of a Barkley alternative?
I doubt Sanson was brought with this season in mind, other than maybe as a squad player. I think he's just become available at the right price a bit earlier than expected, and we've capitalised on that - brought him in whilst there's less competition for his services, with a view to him playing a bigger role in 2021/22. The extra 6 months bedding in time will also be a nice bonus.

I think we'd have kept Hourihane if he'd wanted to stay, but to his credit he isn't the sort of player who's happy to sit around playing a dozen games a season and picking up his pay cheque. He needed to.move even if, for us, that's not ideal.

Guilbert - who knows what's going on there, but it'd be totally understandable if he wanted to be a bit closer to home at the moment.

I'm really excited about this summer. I think we've been unfortunate this season not to have ended up challenging for a Europa League spot. Obviously this is based on the top end of expectations, but with some good recruitment I genuinely think we could be in the top 4 this time next season. Europa league is absolutely achievable.

Offline Abbeyfealeavfc

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12733 on: May 13, 2021, 08:31:08 AM »
It all comes down to whether the £11m loan fee and increased wages for barkley was worth it compared to sticking with Conor.
Tbf I didn't know much about barkley before he arrived, but it didn't take long to know where he was lacking in quality in addition to his poor team ethic and attitude.
Going forwards I would hope we don't waste any more money on poor loan signings at the expense of our own established players or young players coming through like Ramsey and Chuka, especially (as seems the case) there is an obligation to involve that loan player in most if not all games irrespective of form.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12734 on: May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM »
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

 


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