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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1517780 times)

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8925 on: July 08, 2020, 03:00:38 PM »
Pretending things are better than they are is not being supportive. We all show up for games that we know we're going to lose, that's part and parcel of being a supporter. But I watch enough football to know a hopeless case when I see one, and I'm not going to tell my fellow supporters that it's somehow OK that we've stank up the Premier League this season. It's certainly not OK to me.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8926 on: July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM »
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8927 on: July 08, 2020, 03:02:24 PM »
Bielsa might get Leeds up in two years. Smith did it in less than one season and with the poorest excuse for a defence at the start of his time that we've had in my lifetime.

Dyche has kept a Burnley side up and got them into Europe. Look at their squad, look at their midfield. Why rubbish his achievements which are far greater in the Premier League than Bielsa, who so far, has not managed a single game in the top flight of English football.

Thats your problem there. Assuming that being forrin rather than from iNguRlaNd is a prerequisite for success.

What nonsense. Utter nonsense.

Somebody got out the wrong side of the bed.

The season has been a dreadful struggle. Points pissed up the wall in the first half of the season. A monumental waste.

Oh thats me told.

Nonsense is disregarding English managers achievements like Dyche or Wilder "because its more of the same" or Fat Sam, who keeps clubs up. You can take your pick over styles of football; but all 3 regular achieve success relative to their aims. In the same breath ignoring Bielsa and what he's actually done in English football club compared to what he might. For avoidance of doubt, he took Leeds from top after beating us at Christmas, to watching us get promoted on the tele in May.

Of course this season has been a struggle. I hoped for 11th  feared 2015/16 cannon fodder, would be happy to stay up. And we still might which will be job jobbed.

I wasn’t disregarding British managers successes i don’t mind Dyche at all

but I used Bielsa as a model of the direction I would rather take than go down the same path as we’ve been going down before

whatever British manager is doing well at the time we are looking ie Smith, Lambert, Bruce gets the gig but I would rather tread a different path

that’s all I’m saying
If you disagree that’s fair enough if Dyche is what you want fair doos
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 03:04:32 PM by john e »

Offline Clampy

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8928 on: July 08, 2020, 03:05:43 PM »
Pretending things are better than they are is not being supportive. We all show up for games that we know we're going to lose, that's part and parcel of being a supporter. But I watch enough football to know a hopeless case when I see one, and I'm not going to tell my fellow supporters that it's somehow OK that we've stank up the Premier League this season. It's certainly not OK to me.

No-one is pretending things are better than they are though.

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8929 on: July 08, 2020, 03:06:13 PM »
I want Pepe and to play the best football imaginable and to win every week.

I wouldn't mind Dyche's effectiveness.

The problem with Bielsa and Smith, is Smith succeeded, Bielsa failed and quite spectacularly too. He may still get them up this season, stands a good chance.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8930 on: July 08, 2020, 03:10:42 PM »
Pretending things are better than they are is not being supportive. We all show up for games that we know we're going to lose, that's part and parcel of being a supporter. But I watch enough football to know a hopeless case when I see one, and I'm not going to tell my fellow supporters that it's somehow OK that we've stank up the Premier League this season. It's certainly not OK to me.

Which nobody at all is saying.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8931 on: July 08, 2020, 03:12:19 PM »
Maybe the task is beyond him, but maybe the task we had was beyond most managers, rebuilding a squad in a couple of months in the wealthiest league in the world. Are they all 'shit'? It's backwards thinking, it means throwing the baby out with the bathwater every time and it will lead to us being shit for another 10 years if we don't find the magic unicorn that will fix all of our ills.

Anyway, weren't you calling for Smith's head when we lost at home to the baggies last season? After what, 4 months in the job?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a definition of madness. Smith has to go. Any manager doing this badly would have to go. Did lambert get any better for being kept on at least a season too long? Should we have kept McNeil, Turner, Venglos, Garde? Do you think Leicester regret binning off Pearson, Ranieri and Shakespeare even though they all improved them before faltering? Maybe Man Utd should have kept hold of Moyes for another few years?

Plenty of managers have taken teams up and kept them there on less resource. We shouldn't be aspiring to having a manager that 'isn't shit', we should be aiming for good.

We should have sacked Taylor in 89. And Little for taking us so close to relegation. And Saunders when we were going backwards after 77 etc. Everton should have sacked Kendall, blah de blah.

And choosing Man Utd as an example in this case is probably not the wisest.

Anyway, it's all just scapegoating, the mob have had enough and they want a head. In football it's usually the manager, and to hell with trying to sort out the real issues we'll just bring in the next scapegoat that will fail to meet expectations.

It just feels dumb.

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8932 on: July 08, 2020, 03:15:04 PM »
I want Pepe and to play the best football imaginable and to win every week.

I wouldn't mind Dyche's effectiveness.

The problem with Bielsa and Smith, is Smith succeeded, Bielsa failed and quite spectacularly too. He may still get them up this season, stands a good chance.

It’s not an argument

I’m just putting forward the way I would like us to go if Smith goes




Offline paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8933 on: July 08, 2020, 03:19:42 PM »
I want Pepe and to play the best football imaginable and to win every week.

I wouldn't mind Dyche's effectiveness.

The problem with Bielsa and Smith, is Smith succeeded, Bielsa failed and quite spectacularly too. He may still get them up this season, stands a good chance.

I'd say that last season was a year too early for us and Leeds, they had a squad with about 13-14 players good enough to challenge and then dross/kids, we were similar but with no defenders as well. A pretty miraculous run of form saw us get to the play offs and then momentum carried us through but it meant we had a summer to rebuild completely. Leeds missed otu and had an extra season to build a squad Bielsa could work with and they're benefiting from that.

The advantage Bielsa has is that he's much more experienced of managing sides in the top flight whereas Smith had to learn what works and what doesn't 'on the job'. This is why my choice for a manager is always to look at someone who has been successful in a top flight league somewhere like portugal, holland, belgium or scotland if you can because they aren't hugely in demand from the very top sides but they have that experience of playing winning football in a league that isn't massively ahead of the championship in standard but where the goal is European qualification and meaningful title rather than earning the right to play against better teams. It changes the expectations and pressure.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8934 on: July 08, 2020, 03:20:33 PM »
We should have sacked Taylor in 89. And Little for taking us so close to relegation. And Saunders when we were going backwards after 77 etc. Everton should have sacked Kendall, blah de blah.

And choosing Man Utd as an example in this case is probably not the wisest.

Anyway, it's all just scapegoating, the mob have had enough and they want a head. In football it's usually the manager, and to hell with trying to sort out the real issues we'll just bring in the next scapegoat that will fail to meet expectations.

It just feels dumb.
It will feel dumb if you only cite the examples where it would have been dumb.  Sticking with someone is the ideal but not for its own sake.  You stick with someone when they've proved they can do the job and do it well.  What we've done for the last few years is appoint a succession of mediocre managers.  It doesn't seem to me that arbitrarily deciding to stick with one of them, for fear of appointing another mediocre manager in their wake, is a good idea.  The key thing is to finally, after years of fucking it up with has beens and no marks, appoint someone good.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8935 on: July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM »
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

Offline ASHTONVILLA

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8936 on: July 08, 2020, 03:24:38 PM »
Maybe the task is beyond him, but maybe the task we had was beyond most managers, rebuilding a squad in a couple of months in the wealthiest league in the world. Are they all 'shit'? It's backwards thinking, it means throwing the baby out with the bathwater every time and it will lead to us being shit for another 10 years if we don't find the magic unicorn that will fix all of our ills.

Anyway, weren't you calling for Smith's head when we lost at home to the baggies last season? After what, 4 months in the job?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a definition of madness. Smith has to go. Any manager doing this badly would have to go. Did lambert get any better for being kept on at least a season too long? Should we have kept McNeil, Turner, Venglos, Garde? Do you think Leicester regret binning off Pearson, Ranieri and Shakespeare even though they all improved them before faltering? Maybe Man Utd should have kept hold of Moyes for another few years?

Plenty of managers have taken teams up and kept them there on less resource. We shouldn't be aspiring to having a manager that 'isn't shit', we should be aiming for good.

We should have sacked Taylor in 89. And Little for taking us so close to relegation. And Saunders when we were going backwards after 77 etc. Everton should have sacked Kendall, blah de blah.

And choosing Man Utd as an example in this case is probably not the wisest.

Anyway, it's all just scapegoating, the mob have had enough and they want a head. In football it's usually the manager, and to hell with trying to sort out the real issues we'll just bring in the next scapegoat that will fail to meet expectations.

It just feels dumb.

Not as dumb as giving fresh pile of money to the set up that just failed miserably.

Just because sticking with Ferguson worked out 20 years ago it does not follow that sticking with Moyes would have. Yes there are examples of managers that turned it around after a bad patch (Smith did it himself last year) but there are plenty of cautionary tales from clubs that stuck too long as well.

And as for Kendall, ask any Everton fan about his second and third stint and they will tell you there is no room for living on past performance in football.

Offline Clampy

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8937 on: July 08, 2020, 03:25:03 PM »
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

Absolutely. The frustration is understandable. It's almost as if some people try and sound angrier than they did the day before.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8938 on: July 08, 2020, 03:28:07 PM »
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.
Some people are relentlessly pessimistic, some are relentlessly positive.  That's life.  I am surprised though by how much that appears to upset people on both sides.

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8939 on: July 08, 2020, 03:38:41 PM »
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

People complaining about pessimism are just as relentless, even more so in most cases.  I can't understand why they don't understand why people are so upset about another dreadful season.

 


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