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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 465218 times)

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6990 on: February 26, 2020, 05:38:18 PM »
I also agree with paul. One thing everyone agrees on is that we've suffered from a lack of continuity over the past ten years, yet at the first sign of anything going wrong we want to rip it up and start again.

It's only worth having continuity if the manager is worth sticking with.  The Premier League is littered with the corpses of the careers of decent Championship managers who have then gone on to be less than great in the Premier League.

And there are also a lot of managers who can be both.

Online paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6991 on: February 26, 2020, 05:49:34 PM »
Continuity is obviously preferable, but itís only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if youíve got the right one. Dean Smith isnít the right manager to be giving time to

It's not just about the manager though, writing players off after half a season (or less) and calling for 7-8 new signings every summer and 3-4 every winter is a massive mistake, 2-3 signings in the summer and then the winter window becomes a chance to address problems but without specific plans to sign anyone.


Even if players leave or managers are replaced you need some consistency in the approach, MON > Houllier > McLeish is the sort of scattergun thinking that creates problems and ditching Smith to bring in Allardyce (for example) would be repeating that. Have a style in mind and if the current manager isn't delivering it then replace him with someone who can move you in that direction, don't change direction.

Online hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6992 on: February 26, 2020, 05:54:32 PM »
Continuity is obviously preferable, but itís only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if youíve got the right one. Dean Smith isnít the right manager to be giving time to

It's not just about the manager though, writing players off after half a season (or less) and calling for 7-8 new signings every summer and 3-4 every winter is a massive mistake, 2-3 signings in the summer and then the winter window becomes a chance to address problems but without specific plans to sign anyone.


Even if players leave or managers are replaced you need some consistency in the approach, MON > Houllier > McLeish is the sort of scattergun thinking that creates problems and ditching Smith to bring in Allardyce (for example) would be repeating that. Have a style in mind and if the current manager isn't delivering it then replace him with someone who can move you in that direction, don't change direction.
But is it the style that is wrong or the manager?

Online Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6993 on: February 26, 2020, 05:57:19 PM »
Continuity is obviously preferable, but itís only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if youíve got the right one. Dean Smith isnít the right manager to be giving time to

It's not just about the manager though, writing players off after half a season (or less) and calling for 7-8 new signings every summer and 3-4 every winter is a massive mistake, 2-3 signings in the summer and then the winter window becomes a chance to address problems but without specific plans to sign anyone.


Even if players leave or managers are replaced you need some consistency in the approach, MON > Houllier > McLeish is the sort of scattergun thinking that creates problems and ditching Smith to bring in Allardyce (for example) would be repeating that. Have a style in mind and if the current manager isn't delivering it then replace him with someone who can move you in that direction, don't change direction.
But is it the style that is wrong or the manager?

Neither.

Under Bruce, McLeish and Lambert it was both.

Online hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6994 on: February 26, 2020, 06:03:54 PM »
Under Bruce, McLeish and Lambert it was both.
Agreed, but something isn't working.

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6995 on: February 26, 2020, 06:21:12 PM »
In Heaton/Reina/Nyland, Mings, McGinn, Jack and potentially Samatta we have the spine of a good team. Itís just the most of the rest of them are average to poor, and theyíre being badly coached.

Offline DB

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6996 on: February 26, 2020, 06:22:13 PM »
In Heaton/Reina/Nyland, Mings, McGinn, Jack and potentially Samatta we have the spine of a good team. Itís just the most of the rest of them are average to poor, and theyíre being badly coached.

I agree with that.

Online paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6997 on: February 26, 2020, 06:24:07 PM »
As I've said before I think we have an inexperienced manager and an inexperienced squad and those 2 together make us incredibly naive.

This season will be touch and go regardless of what we do from here but if we stay up and stick with everyone I think we'll be in a better place next season with just a handful of signings to replace people like Lansbury and Taylor who are 'senior' players but don't really offer anything.

Online hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6998 on: February 26, 2020, 06:31:03 PM »
As I've said before I think we have an inexperienced manager and an inexperienced squad and those 2 together make us incredibly naive.

This season will be touch and go regardless of what we do from here but if we stay up and stick with everyone I think we'll be in a better place next season with just a handful of signings to replace people like Lansbury and Taylor who are 'senior' players but don't really offer anything.
I agree next season should be better, if we stay up, and that season will tell us whether Smith is the right man.  But on recruitment I think that handful of signings will be needed to replace some current first teamers, with them dropping down to replace Lansbury, Taylor, etc.

Offline Demitri_C

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6999 on: February 26, 2020, 06:39:20 PM »
The fatalism on here has reached new heights I see, we now have a squad that isn't even top half of the championship with Jack, Mings and McGinn. A couple more defeats and we'll be getting kicked straight into league 1 for being so shit.

On topic, we'd need to replace Mings well and get a proper defensive midfielder but other than that I'd be ok with us going with players already at the club, Samatta and Wesley would be very good at that level, AEG has proven he's good there and I think Trez would do well. Then we've o'hare, vassilev, archer, ramsey and barry who would all get chance to play senior football and have shown glimpses of being very talented. We might lose Heaton and Reina but Steer, Nyland and Sarkic are all capable of being first choice in the championship.

I think we'd be near the top all season and we'd have a lots of youngsters with a lot more experience by the time we came back. What we did wrong when were relegated last time was selling Benteke and Delph and trying to buy a new squad. What we did wrong the first season after relegation last time was try to buy a new squad. What we did wrong when we sacked RDM was take on a manager who approaches every window like a kid in a sweet shop. What we did wrong (with no alternative) this season was buy a new squad. Continuity matters and we've had none for 4 years, we need to fill gaps and adapt rather than tear down and replace, regardless of which league we're in next season.

Bet you thought the same when we were relegated and signed the likes of McCormack and elphick yet we finished a embarrassing 13th.

Its hard tk aay as we dont know who we would sign if we went down and who leaves.  But certainly without mcgjnn grealish mings for me we will struggle badly without those three are the spine

Any spine of a team that leaves makes you significantly weaker.

I also add if we coildnt stay up with thsoe three what chance jn hell woukd we have if we came back again ?

We have to do eveeything not to go down sk we can retain players like mcginn and mings.

If we stay ul we can oush on and get rid of players like elmo Taylor trez and aeg who are not good enough at this level

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #7000 on: February 26, 2020, 06:56:02 PM »
The Relegation scenario has gone from Deny to Resist to Experiment, just a matter of time before we get to Change then?
Relegation will be a disaster,.
The heart will be ripped out of the team leaving the rest of a failed squad traumatized.
how do we know that our owners will be so committed if they end up back at square one.
I really donít think we can assume they will ď go againĒ
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 07:16:06 PM by ChicagoLion »

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #7001 on: February 26, 2020, 07:04:55 PM »
My view is that continuity is brilliant if youíre sticking to the right path. If itís the wrong path then youíre just creating a pipeline of problems. I donít know what the answer is in respect of Dean and Iíd love it if he could succeed, but my concern is we donít look like weíre moving/getting better. Hopefully Iím just missing it and an upturn is round the corner.

Online paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #7002 on: February 26, 2020, 07:51:07 PM »
The fatalism on here has reached new heights I see, we now have a squad that isn't even top half of the championship with Jack, Mings and McGinn. A couple more defeats and we'll be getting kicked straight into league 1 for being so shit.

On topic, we'd need to replace Mings well and get a proper defensive midfielder but other than that I'd be ok with us going with players already at the club, Samatta and Wesley would be very good at that level, AEG has proven he's good there and I think Trez would do well. Then we've o'hare, vassilev, archer, ramsey and barry who would all get chance to play senior football and have shown glimpses of being very talented. We might lose Heaton and Reina but Steer, Nyland and Sarkic are all capable of being first choice in the championship.

I think we'd be near the top all season and we'd have a lots of youngsters with a lot more experience by the time we came back. What we did wrong when were relegated last time was selling Benteke and Delph and trying to buy a new squad. What we did wrong the first season after relegation last time was try to buy a new squad. What we did wrong when we sacked RDM was take on a manager who approaches every window like a kid in a sweet shop. What we did wrong (with no alternative) this season was buy a new squad. Continuity matters and we've had none for 4 years, we need to fill gaps and adapt rather than tear down and replace, regardless of which league we're in next season.

Bet you thought the same when we were relegated and signed the likes of McCormack and elphick yet we finished a embarrassing 13th.

Its hard tk aay as we dont know who we would sign if we went down and who leaves.  But certainly without mcgjnn grealish mings for me we will struggle badly without those three are the spine

Any spine of a team that leaves makes you significantly weaker.

I also add if we coildnt stay up with thsoe three what chance jn hell woukd we have if we came back again ?

We have to do eveeything not to go down sk we can retain players like mcginn and mings.

If we stay ul we can oush on and get rid of players like elmo Taylor trez and aeg who are not good enough at this level

You'd lose that bet, and mostly because you haven't bothered reading my posts. Signing players like McCormack was the exact opposite of what I think is the correct approach, something you could easily check by looking at my posts from the last couple of hours on this thread.

The rest of your post is so littered with spelling mistakes that it's hard to read but yes we'd lose players, but we'd have a squad with a year of experience in the premier league/England and enough money in the bank to make the handful of signings we'd need to replace the leavers. Get those 2-3 signings right and we'd be comfortably in the mix for automatic promotion.

If we were promoted after 1 season the squad would be similar to the current one (without the 3 obvious names and with replacements instead) but with so much more experience of playing together, which makes a massive difference. Add to that the fact that we would also have the same £120m we spent this season but because we'd held on to the squad it'd be spent on 3-4 players rather than half a squad.

I am in no way suggesting we shouldn't try to stay up (I think we will anyway), this is in direct response to the idea that we'd be bottom half of the championship next season not planning for anything.



Online paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #7003 on: February 26, 2020, 07:52:50 PM »
My view is that continuity is brilliant if youíre sticking to the right path. If itís the wrong path then youíre just creating a pipeline of problems. I donít know what the answer is in respect of Dean and Iíd love it if he could succeed, but my concern is we donít look like weíre moving/getting better. Hopefully Iím just missing it and an upturn is round the corner.

I think the type of manager we have the 'shape' of the squad are the right path so the changes should be small, minor course redirects rather than changing direction.

Online Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #7004 on: February 26, 2020, 08:09:09 PM »
The Relegation scenario has gone from Deny to Resist to Experiment, just a matter of time before we get to Change then?
Relegation will be a disaster,.
The heart will be ripped out of the team leaving the rest of a failed squad traumatized.
how do we know that our owners will be so committed if they end up back at square one.
I really donít think we can assume they will ď go againĒ

OK, I think I understand. You're chicken little?