Dean Smith - Confirmed

[john e]

thanks for that rather long clarification post mate

[Ads]

Why don't you just admit you were wrong?

Benteke was a brilliant centre forward. Utterly unplayable at times. Scored rafts of goals in awful teams over 3 years.

We all get it wrong sometimes. You got it wrong on this one it happens.

[PeterWithesShin]

He's had 3 full seasons since he left us, at Liverpool he scored 9 in 29 league games (14 starts) which is ok, 15 in 36 in his first season at Palace is good, last season was a total mare for him, and this season he's been injured since early Sept which makes the "he barely starts for Palace" stuff bizarre as he started their first 4 games and has been injured ever since.

[Ad@m]

Benteke was a brilliant centre forward. Utterly unplayable at times. Scored rafts of goals in awful teams over 3 years.

He certainly was.  He also saw us as a stepping stone and along with his mercenary agent tried to force a move away after only six months of useful service.

For that reason, I couldn't give two fucks what's happened to him since he left and wouldn't be arsed if he never scored another goal again!

[stuart445]

Stuart, just to clarify, I raised Benteke to show you what the response on here is like when someone is genuinely foolish and also to show that judging someone earely in the career at the club isn't unique to people who don't like Bruce.

The club now is, seemingly, run more how I thought we should've been when Xia arrived and if we'd done things the right way back then there wouldn't have been this myth that there was something fundamentally wrong at the club that Bruce was the perfect answer to. Bruce was seen as a the perfect answer because we were still asking the wrong questions and by doing so we went to the brink of administration. If the only bar you set for judging someone is that they were better than RDM (who is the only other manager to work under that board) then yes Bruce looks decent especially when RDM was given almost no time with his 'final' squad but getting a bounce and then finishing the rebuilding job by papering over the cracks is all Bruce really did which is why he was sacked as soon as we had competent management above him who'd had a chance to see what he had done.

To go full circle, I trust Smith to do a better job of addressing the underlying issues, I trust Purslow to be more demanding of it and I trust Pitarch more to find the right players for Smith to use to do it. Smith has come in and has only said 1 thing critical of Bruce which was to point out a couple of weeks ago that his only fit central defender was playing for Hull, Bruce spent a year moaning about what he found when he arrived.

Bruce arrived at a team in 20th with 11 points from 12 games (I'm not counting the Wolves game as his)
Smith arrived at a team in 18th with 13 points from 12 games

Both arrived at teams with a midfield that was a mess but only one arrived to a squad with just 2 centre halves and 1 left left back. Hence Bruce has left us almost exactly where he found us having failed at his only target twice.


As for comparing 6months of form from Hogan and Ireland to 3 years of form from Benteke that's some fine straw clutching.

So having our worst season and team in the clubs history was a myth??

Up until Bruce came in we were in decline season after season whilst having multiple managers and he was the only one that we appointed that stopped that decline that isn't a myth that is fact. You don't go a whole season only winning 3 games, getting relegated with 17 points then go into the next season in a lower division winning only 1 in 11 if there wasn't something fundamentally with the club.

[paul_e]

thanks for that rather long clarification post mate

The clarification was the first sentence, the rest was trying to get him to explain why I'm foolish for thinking the job Bruce did in his first season is overrated by some but he's not foolish for continuing with his nonsense about Benteke.

[john e]

but if we could bring him back would be any good now ?

I'd take the chance

I loved him thought he was absolutely brilliant

[paul_e]

Stuart, just to clarify, I raised Benteke to show you what the response on here is like when someone is genuinely foolish and also to show that judging someone earely in the career at the club isn't unique to people who don't like Bruce.

The club now is, seemingly, run more how I thought we should've been when Xia arrived and if we'd done things the right way back then there wouldn't have been this myth that there was something fundamentally wrong at the club that Bruce was the perfect answer to. Bruce was seen as a the perfect answer because we were still asking the wrong questions and by doing so we went to the brink of administration. If the only bar you set for judging someone is that they were better than RDM (who is the only other manager to work under that board) then yes Bruce looks decent especially when RDM was given almost no time with his 'final' squad but getting a bounce and then finishing the rebuilding job by papering over the cracks is all Bruce really did which is why he was sacked as soon as we had competent management above him who'd had a chance to see what he had done.

To go full circle, I trust Smith to do a better job of addressing the underlying issues, I trust Purslow to be more demanding of it and I trust Pitarch more to find the right players for Smith to use to do it. Smith has come in and has only said 1 thing critical of Bruce which was to point out a couple of weeks ago that his only fit central defender was playing for Hull, Bruce spent a year moaning about what he found when he arrived.

Bruce arrived at a team in 20th with 11 points from 12 games (I'm not counting the Wolves game as his)
Smith arrived at a team in 18th with 13 points from 12 games

Both arrived at teams with a midfield that was a mess but only one arrived to a squad with just 2 centre halves and 1 left left back. Hence Bruce has left us almost exactly where he found us having failed at his only target twice.


As for comparing 6months of form from Hogan and Ireland to 3 years of form from Benteke that's some fine straw clutching.

So having our worst season and team in the clubs history was a myth??

Up until Bruce came in we were in decline season after season whilst having multiple managers and he was the only one that we appointed that stopped that decline that isn't a myth that is fact. You don't go a whole season only winning 3 games, getting relegated with 17 points then go into the next season in a lower division winning only 1 in 11 if there wasn't something fundamentally with the club.

Strawman arguments aren't really worth a reply.

[john e]

thanks for that rather long clarification post mate

The clarification was the first sentence, the rest was trying to get him to explain why I'm foolish for thinking the job Bruce did in his first season is overrated by some but he's not foolish for continuing with his nonsense about Benteke.

it was just a dig
you said my effort yesterday was a bit long which made me laugh coming from the man who puts up the longest posts on the fucking Internet

[stuart445]

Stuart, just to clarify, I raised Benteke to show you what the response on here is like when someone is genuinely foolish and also to show that judging someone earely in the career at the club isn't unique to people who don't like Bruce.

The club now is, seemingly, run more how I thought we should've been when Xia arrived and if we'd done things the right way back then there wouldn't have been this myth that there was something fundamentally wrong at the club that Bruce was the perfect answer to. Bruce was seen as a the perfect answer because we were still asking the wrong questions and by doing so we went to the brink of administration. If the only bar you set for judging someone is that they were better than RDM (who is the only other manager to work under that board) then yes Bruce looks decent especially when RDM was given almost no time with his 'final' squad but getting a bounce and then finishing the rebuilding job by papering over the cracks is all Bruce really did which is why he was sacked as soon as we had competent management above him who'd had a chance to see what he had done.

To go full circle, I trust Smith to do a better job of addressing the underlying issues, I trust Purslow to be more demanding of it and I trust Pitarch more to find the right players for Smith to use to do it. Smith has come in and has only said 1 thing critical of Bruce which was to point out a couple of weeks ago that his only fit central defender was playing for Hull, Bruce spent a year moaning about what he found when he arrived.

Bruce arrived at a team in 20th with 11 points from 12 games (I'm not counting the Wolves game as his)
Smith arrived at a team in 18th with 13 points from 12 games

Both arrived at teams with a midfield that was a mess but only one arrived to a squad with just 2 centre halves and 1 left left back. Hence Bruce has left us almost exactly where he found us having failed at his only target twice.


As for comparing 6months of form from Hogan and Ireland to 3 years of form from Benteke that's some fine straw clutching.

So having our worst season and team in the clubs history was a myth??

Up until Bruce came in we were in decline season after season whilst having multiple managers and he was the only one that we appointed that stopped that decline that isn't a myth that is fact. You don't go a whole season only winning 3 games, getting relegated with 17 points then go into the next season in a lower division winning only 1 in 11 if there wasn't something fundamentally with the club.

Strawman arguments aren't really worth a reply.

So finishing with one of the worst points tallys in the leagues history winning only 3 games in a season then only 1 in the 1st 11 of the next so only 4 wins in 49, if that doesn't point to something being fundamentally wrong with the club. I'd like to know how bad it'd have to get for you to realise something was fundamentally wrong with the club.

[Richard E]

So,anyone got any thoughts on Dean Smith?

[Legion]

Benteke was ace. Downing was a cowardly weasel. Ireland was a waster. Hogan is next to useless.

[Legion]

So,anyone got any thoughts on Dean Smith?

Who?

[paul_e]

For fuck sake this is tedious, there was something fundamentally wrong with the club, we had 3 managers in a season, an owner who wanted to sell and a squad that was split in 2 with players who were despised by the fans.

Then we were sold and got an entire new management team.
Then we got a new manager and new coaching team.
Then we signed 9 first team players and sold/loaned out 14.

We weren't the same club, squad or team that were relegated. What we were was a team that had barely had any time to train together under a manager who didn't really know what he was doing and with a fan base that had seen the amount of money spent as a sign that we'd be top of the league all season. All of that together is why Bruce got the job, the 2/3/4 seasons of shit in the premier league before he arrived was nothing to do with it.

[robleflaneur]

I rated Benteke as the best Villa centre forward that I've seen ,eclipsing Hitchens and Gray .He is a confidence player but what other clubs have failed to appreciate is that he's terrific with the ball at his feet running at defenders especially coming from wide areas.
I object to the idea that Bruce brought stability to the club.Xia threw cash at the problem.Stability or rather winning games in the short term was bought.Expensive loanees,Terry,Johnstone ,Snodgrass and Grabban.An expensive striker in Hogan to accompany other big signings,Kodjia and McCormack.A new midfield in Barney,Hourihane,Whelan and Lansbury.This resulted in the worst situation that the club has ever found itself in And then with the financial cavalry coming rescue he outdoes all his previous efforts,leaving Smith with the option of 3 right backs in defence.
Bruce does strong and stable like Theresa May.
We hear about his promotion record but rarely about the aftermath.