NSWE Investment

[chrisw1]

Both look like the souless generic stadiums that used to kick about on Pro Evo.

I'd be gutted if we ever went from a ground as unique as Villa Park to one of those efforts.

To play Devils advocate, how unique is 4 post 1970's stands?  Other than some easily replicated 1990's steps and brick cladding outside the Holte (built cheaply by HDE no less), is it really that significantly unique compared to Stamford Bridge, Bramall Lane, Craven Cottage, Elland Road, Turf Moor, Vicarage Road, Loftus Road, Hillsborough, Carrow Road, The Hawthorns, St James' Park, Anfield...

I get that the location, park, church, pub etc it is, - but the 4 stands themselves are all relatively modern, two are utter shite and beyond their useful life and the other two are serviceable in a brutally basic way.  But without the mid 90's brick frontage, would they be anything special?

[chrisw1]

That would put us 1.5 miles away from the Nou Sty

And 1 mile from Snow Hill and Moor Street.

[The Edge]

Does anyone think this is just going to be increased seats in the current Villa Park or a brand new stadium?  Anyone in the know?

Is this a wind up?

[The Edge]

Surely they'd need planning permission to do that though? Haven't heard of anything going in, and normally everything like that gets picked up by somebody.

Yes, I can't see how they're going to squeeze in 2-3000 seats.  If they do I just hope it's a better effort than the Wolves temp stand.  At least the existing concourses and facilities in the North are spacious and modern enough to easily cope with a few k more seats.

Extra seats in the NS corners wouldn't be possible without a whole new roof. Those massive pillars supporting the roof would have to go. That would be a very expensive way to install a few extra seats as a temporary measure.

[chrisw1]

Surely they'd need planning permission to do that though? Haven't heard of anything going in, and normally everything like that gets picked up by somebody.

Yes, I can't see how they're going to squeeze in 2-3000 seats.  If they do I just hope it's a better effort than the Wolves temp stand.  At least the existing concourses and facilities in the North are spacious and modern enough to easily cope with a few k more seats.

Extra seats in the NS corners wouldn't be possible without a whole new roof. Those massive pillars supporting the roof would have to go. That would be a very expensive way to install a few extra seats as a temporary measure.

Wolves say hello...

[The Edge]

Surely they'd need planning permission to do that though? Haven't heard of anything going in, and normally everything like that gets picked up by somebody.

Yes, I can't see how they're going to squeeze in 2-3000 seats.  If they do I just hope it's a better effort than the Wolves temp stand.  At least the existing concourses and facilities in the North are spacious and modern enough to easily cope with a few k more seats.

Extra seats in the NS corners wouldn't be possible without a whole new roof. Those massive pillars supporting the roof would have to go. That would be a very expensive way to install a few extra seats as a temporary measure.

Wolves say hello...

You completely missed the point. There are no massive roof supports to stop them doing that.
Edit: just had a look at the NS again. They could maybe squeeze some in to the side of the pillars but very restricted. Also the Corner flag restaurant and strange office looking thing between the North and the away fans would have to be demolished. Just seems a lot of work for little reward. I can't see it happening.

[Nev]

I went to Wolfs last season and seeing those fans, in plastic ponchos getting soaked looked so incongruous given the money sloshing around in football.

It looks what it is, small time and cheap.

[tomd2103]

The gas holders site seems like a decent idea. Loads of space there, and not that densely populated by businesses. I did a screenshot of Google maps, and there seems to be three big warehouse type places next to the actual holders. The squate I've drawn on it is 20 acres, which is bigger than the current site by 3 acres.


If they wanted more than that if they bought the area with the playing field to the right, that extends the footprint considerably. I guess the transport links aren't much better, but you have got Duddeston train station about the same distance away as Aston is now I guess. Overall, it looks slightly less hemmed in than Villa Park is, where I think the main issue is the narrowness of the smaller streets of the main routes. What be the main problems with this as an area?

Windsor Street holder site, now only houses a small office block and a bit of a maintenance yard. Cadent are not averse to selling off their land for development as anyone who has been to Hinckley recently will testify, where they sold off what was the HQ with far more people using it than use the Windsor Street site.

As said above if you could buy the warehouses on the banks of the cut and then the sports pitch and wellbeing centre on Rupert Street, that would be a large enough area for the stadium. For other amenities, you have the land between the site and Dartmouth Middleway, where there are 2 hotels already (Premier Inn & Campenile) so there must be a demand. That area could be developed into a food/drink/hotel area and available during the week to the student population. 

The office block (it was called waterlinks house) could be developed or demolished and a footbridge installed across Dartmouth Middleway to aid access. If you redevelop Villa Park its still only Villa Park, with little or no desire to visit the area other than on matchday. I'm a reluctant mover from Villa Park and the new stadium would have to pay homage to both the Old Trinity and The Holte in its design.

I think that would work for that site.  There is also the old industrial units that back on to the wellness centre (between Lord Street and Great Lister Street) which would create even more space if purchased

[LeeS]

One of the issues with that playing field next to the site is the band of trees between it and the Cadent site. Find bats in there and you can forget it. That's before anyone raises the question of removing a green space.

[KevinGage]

Both look like the souless generic stadiums that used to kick about on Pro Evo.

I'd be gutted if we ever went from a ground as unique as Villa Park to one of those efforts.

To play Devils advocate, how unique is 4 post 1970's stands?  Other than some easily replicated 1990's steps and brick cladding outside the Holte (built cheaply by HDE no less), is it really that significantly unique compared to Stamford Bridge, Bramall Lane, Craven Cottage, Elland Road, Turf Moor, Vicarage Road, Loftus Road, Hillsborough, Carrow Road, The Hawthorns, St James' Park, Anfield...

I get that the location, park, church, pub etc it is, - but the 4 stands themselves are all relatively modern, two are utter shite and beyond their useful life and the other two are serviceable in a brutally basic way.  But without the mid 90's brick frontage, would they be anything special?

Each of the four individual stands on their own have little artistic value, true (except for the North, which was a trendsetter in day).  But the whole is greater than the sum of its parts; it's the stands, location and even the weird angle that cuts across the Holte and the Trinity.

Clubs like Arsenal and more recently Everton had to contemplate losing a much loved ground because they didn't have the scope to get to 50,000+ any other way.

We're not in that boat.

[FatSam]

I think my knocking down old buildings probably isn’t the best analogy to use
As there’s not one single stand that remains the same since I started going to Villa Park even

I suppose it’s more the location our home since 1897 and the history and tradition that goes with it

I think that’s right. I’m not in favour of demolishing historic buildings of value. As a city Birmingham has perhaps suffered more than any other in the UK from this. In many cases historic buildings were demolished in the name of progress, and the progress didn’t necessarily follow. I’m thinking of the original central library, and Snow Hill station in particular. However, all of the historic building fabric at Villa Park has already been destroyed. I’m in favour of a move to the right site, but if the old Trinity Road stand, and the Lower Grounds buildings behind the Witton End had not been demolished, I might feel differently. Ultimately Aston Hall and the church will remain even if Villa Park does not. The decision now is between the history and tradition of the location, and what could be gained from moving elsewhere.

[LeeS]

Both look like the souless generic stadiums that used to kick about on Pro Evo.

I'd be gutted if we ever went from a ground as unique as Villa Park to one of those efforts.

To play Devils advocate, how unique is 4 post 1970's stands?  Other than some easily replicated 1990's steps and brick cladding outside the Holte (built cheaply by HDE no less), is it really that significantly unique compared to Stamford Bridge, Bramall Lane, Craven Cottage, Elland Road, Turf Moor, Vicarage Road, Loftus Road, Hillsborough, Carrow Road, The Hawthorns, St James' Park, Anfield...

I get that the location, park, church, pub etc it is, - but the 4 stands themselves are all relatively modern, two are utter shite and beyond their useful life and the other two are serviceable in a brutally basic way.  But without the mid 90's brick frontage, would they be anything special?

Each of the four individual stands on their own have little artistic value, true (except for the North, which was a trendsetter in day).  But the whole is greater than the sum of its parts; it's the stands, location and even the weird angle that cuts across the Holte and the Trinity.

Clubs like Arsenal and more recently Everton had to contemplate losing a much loved ground because they didn't have the scope to get to 50,000+ any other way.

We're not in that boat.

This is true, but 50,000 might not cut it. We can only speculate on what the owners want. But if it is a multi-purpose venue (concerts, NFL, conferences etc) then they may be planning for 60,000 plus. And these ambitions also demand a better location. Villa Park isn't a nightmare for you and me to get to because we've always done it and we go for the love of it. But it is a terrible location for a big venue like that where you are hoping to get casual punters. Utterly terrible.

[pauliewalnuts]

I went to Wolfs last season and seeing those fans, in plastic ponchos getting soaked looked so incongruous given the money sloshing around in football.

It looks what it is, small time and cheap.

Too fucking right.

I’d be mortified if Heck did that to Villa Park.

It looks so utterly tinpot.

[tomd2103]

One of the issues with that playing field next to the site is the band of trees between it and the Cadent site. Find bats in there and you can forget it. That's before anyone raises the question of removing a green space.

So if a bat disposal expert appears on the Board in a couple of months, we'll know what's going on!

[The Edge]

One of the issues with that playing field next to the site is the band of trees between it and the Cadent site. Find bats in there and you can forget it. That's before anyone raises the question of removing a green space.

So if a bat disposal expert appears on the Board in a couple of months, we'll know what's going on!

Surely you mean bat preservation expert?