Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[olaftab]

A football genius, and a stable football genius. Keep at it Steve.

He is kind of smart, like.

[Drummond]

The fact that Bruce specifically has failed in the PL has nothing to do with him being English. It has all to do with him not being being good enough at that level. 

I guess we might get to find out. If you look at the club's he's managed in the top division, they aren't exactly big clubs are they?

We have to remember he was even being considered for the England job before Allardyce got it and fucked it up. My gut feeling is that he'll not be good enough to take us where we want to go, but that doesn't mean, if we're promoted, that he shouldn't be given the chance.

We're not about to fly high when we are promoted, not without serious investment again at any rate, so staying up will have to be the priority and aim when we do; stability followed by a big push after that.

[Risso]

The fact that Bruce specifically has failed in the PL has nothing to do with him being English. It has all to do with him not being being good enough at that level. 

I guess we might get to find out. If you look at the club's he's managed in the top division, they aren't exactly big clubs are they?

We have to remember he was even being considered for the England job before Allardyce got it and fucked it up. My gut feeling is that he'll not be good enough to take us where we want to go, but that doesn't mean, if we're promoted, that he shouldn't be given the chance.

We're not about to fly high when we are promoted, not without serious investment again at any rate, so staying up will have to be the priority and aim when we do; stability followed by a big push after that.

If he gets us up, there's no way he'll get the sack, but I think he'll be massively found out in terms of lack of strategy and a coherent plan.  The teams that have gone up and stayed up, eg Southampton, Burnley and Bournemouth all seem to have a recognisable style, and they buy players based around that, which appears to be an alien concept to Bruce.

[mr underhill]

here's hoping we can all spend a pleasant few months once the weather gets warmer agonizing over this shit.

[Drummond]

The fact that Bruce specifically has failed in the PL has nothing to do with him being English. It has all to do with him not being being good enough at that level. 

I guess we might get to find out. If you look at the club's he's managed in the top division, they aren't exactly big clubs are they?

We have to remember he was even being considered for the England job before Allardyce got it and fucked it up. My gut feeling is that he'll not be good enough to take us where we want to go, but that doesn't mean, if we're promoted, that he shouldn't be given the chance.

We're not about to fly high when we are promoted, not without serious investment again at any rate, so staying up will have to be the priority and aim when we do; stability followed by a big push after that.

If he gets us up, there's no way he'll get the sack, but I think he'll be massively found out in terms of lack of strategy and a coherent plan.  The teams that have gone up and stayed up, eg Southampton, Burnley and Bournemouth all seem to have a recognisable style, and they buy players based around that, which appears to be an alien concept to Bruce.

I agree to a point, but we do have a style, it's just not that attractive most of the time!

[paul_e]

The bigger issue isn't play style, it's his approach to transfers.  If he, as expected, gets given a chance in the premier league I'd worry about the recruitment he'd do given a budget of £100m or more.  His approach has always been pretty scattergun and he's always struggled most when he' had a big budget.  I don't think I  could handle getting promoted only for him to spend £15-20m on the next Connor Wickham as his biggest signing.

[ChicagoLion]

At some point we need t

The fact that Bruce specifically has failed in the PL has nothing to do with him being English. It has all to do with him not being being good enough at that level. 

I guess we might get to find out. If you look at the club's he's managed in the top division, they aren't exactly big clubs are they?

We have to remember he was even being considered for the England job before Allardyce got it and fucked it up. My gut feeling is that he'll not be good enough to take us where we want to go, but that doesn't mean, if we're promoted, that he shouldn't be given the chance.

We're not about to fly high when we are promoted, not without serious investment again at any rate, so staying up will have to be the priority and aim when we do; stability followed by a big push after that.

If he gets us up, there's no way he'll get the sack, but I think he'll be massively found out in terms of lack of strategy and a coherent plan.  The teams that have gone up and stayed up, eg Southampton, Burnley and Bournemouth all seem to have a recognisable style, and they buy players based around that, which appears to be an alien concept to Bruce.

I agree to a point, but we do have a style, it's just not that attractive most of the time!

Not sure you can call it a style, more a method. As Risso says, it is a method that has severe limitations.

[Clampy]

If he get's us up, they'll give him a crack at another season. It would be harsh to get rid of him. Understandable in some ways but harsh.

[ChicagoLion]

If he get's us up, they'll give him a crack at another season. It would be harsh to get rid of him. Understandable in some ways but harsh.

I agree,Wyness will feel vindicated,
I think that the first season  back will be very tough whoever the manager is.
The problem with going up via the play offs  [which is looking the most likely route] allows even less time to prepare and plan for the Prem.

[Canadian Villa]

I think that we need to get out of the mindset of playing a particular style, the West Ham way, the villa etc. No one can really pinpoint an exact style except either play like Barcelona, play long ball or counter attacking. We all fit in somewhere in between. Game plans change based on who's available and who are the opponents. We would all love to see fast attacking football, but the reality is far from it.

[paul_e]

I think that we need to get out of the mindset of playing a particular style, the West Ham way, the villa etc. No one can really pinpoint an exact style except either play like Barcelona, play long ball or counter attacking. We all fit in somewhere in between. Game plans change based on who's available and who are the opponents. We would all love to see fast attacking football, but the reality is far from it.

Having a style doesn't have to mean playing in a single way, it means scouting and coaching for players that fit in, and knowing that managers you employ will be able to use the squad you have.  If I ever talk about a style that's what I'm talking about, it's about enabling us to have continuity.

[Mister E]

The bigger issue isn't play style, it's his approach to transfers.  If he, as expected, gets given a chance in the premier league I'd worry about the recruitment he'd do given a budget of £100m or more.  His approach has always been pretty scattergun and he's always struggled most when he' had a big budget.  I don't think I  could handle getting promoted only for him to spend £15-20m on the next Connor Wickham as his biggest signing.

I think it is both football philosophy and choice of player in the market. One determines the other, to a large extent.

[paul_e]

The bigger issue isn't play style, it's his approach to transfers.  If he, as expected, gets given a chance in the premier league I'd worry about the recruitment he'd do given a budget of £100m or more.  His approach has always been pretty scattergun and he's always struggled most when he' had a big budget.  I don't think I  could handle getting promoted only for him to spend £15-20m on the next Connor Wickham as his biggest signing.

I think it is both football philosophy and choice of player in the market. One determines the other, to a large extent.

Yes absolutely, but it's not about an exact pattern of play, it's about the broader concepts of the game.  If you want to focus on fitness and workrate (which is the way I think Villa should go) then that should become something that you aim to excel at, we should have the best fitness coaches and sports scientists we can get and we should invest heavily in the technology and equipment we need for it and our scouts should start working on finding players like Milner who are happy to put the hard yards in and chase down everything.  We can then look at managers and coaches who will encourage a style of play that takes advantage of that higher workrate, be it by working hard in defence and counter-attacking on mass or zipping the ball about running teams into the ground by playing at a high tempo.  Or a manager who can play both ways and changes things up.

What the 'ethos' has done though is get you to avoid players who won't work well in either and managers who want to focus on defensive shape and scoring from set pieces, for example.

[Canadian Villa]

Roy Hodgeson said it at the weekend 'you can lead the horse to water', but it's down to the players to put in the desire. I don't see it based on a particular type of play. Sure, get the fittest players you can find but if they can't pass straight then you can't play fast football.

What you can do is build an environment that players want to be a part of and can thrive. Southampton have done it for years. We are a long away from that it seems.

[paul_e]

Roy Hodgeson said it at the weekend 'you can lead the horse to water', but it's down to the players to put in the desire. I don't see it based on a particular type of play. Sure, get the fittest players you can find but if they can't pass straight then you can't play fast football.

What you can do is build an environment that players want to be a part of and can thrive. Southampton have done it for years. We are a long away from that it seems.

I don't see the relevance of the Hodgson quote, I've already agreed that it's not about playstyle and 'being able to play football' is such a basic requirement for a football scout to look for that I didn't think it needed to be stated.

Building an environment that people want to be part of is exactly what I'm talking about though, you can't be everything to everyone so creating an environment that focuses on a handful of specifics and bringing through players that want to be part of that culture benefits everyone.  Some people will think that just making a professional culture is enough but it's not that simple, do you have strict rules and fines and treat everyone as if they're 1 second away from being a naughty little boy all the time or do you give a bit more freedom and trust the players to self-motivate?  You can't have both so you have to choose and then focus on players that respond well to the environment you create.  You also can't change from 1 to the other quickly.