Norwich v Villa Post-Match Thread

[Rudy Can't Fail]

To be fair Newcastle managed to convince one of the best managers in the world who could walk into any top top league he pleases to drop to the Championship with them.  No disrespect to Bruce (who I do like) or RDM but Benitez is a massive coup for them. We can compete on players but the chances of any Championship club managing to get a similar caliber leader are very slim.

I get the thing about Benitez but when we get out fought and out thought, you have to start asking questions about the manager. Toronto mentions two games but for me it's three on the bounce. Leeds, Wigan and Norwich. Where has the fight gone? We piss off teams for the first 15 minutes then they realise how weak we are. We're not talking top teams, more teams there for the slaughter except we have no plan for attack. Blame the midfield all you want but are we so dependent on just one midfielder to operate alongside Jedi? I'm not hearing any complaints about the other 2.

I'm close to giving up on some form of promotion this season. We don't even seem to win ugly. We're still a pub team with no look of a group that look like they share a collective cause. Too many playing for themselves and not the shirt. Ayew, Kodjia and Grealish especially, need to understand they aren't the stars of our team, they are the problem.

What a fcukin' mess. I can only hope Bruce stumbles over a solution as he seems to have fcuk all ideas himself in how to solve it. Nice man that he is.

[OzVilla]

I'm perfectly happy with the job Bruce has done thus far. I think his comments afterwards were spot on too and he clearly gave the players a bollocking. It might do us some good in the long term. Especially if he finally calls time on Gabby and Westwood.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I'm perfectly happy with the job Bruce has done thus far. I think his comments afterwards were spot on too and he clearly gave the players a bollocking. It might do us some good in the long term. Especially if he finally calls time on Gabby and Westwood.

Maybe when he cwakes up and realises he's the problem we'll have a chance. Tonight was shockingly poor apart from our support. God bless them all.

[ciggiesnbeer]

I get the thing about Benitez but when we get out fought and out thought, you have to start asking questions about the manager.

Totally fair to question him after some of our recent performances. I remain confident in him but I wouldn't blame any fellow fan for feeling otherwise.

[Marton]

Seeing the performance based on the selection tonight made me realize on thing: Villa has one general working lineup...one!

Pretending its otherwise is Bruces first mistake. We seen now that he likes to change that lineup based on if we home or away, if he thinks the opponent is good or bad.
Guess what. Deviating too far from that "one" lineup only makes us breaks down in confusion and inviting disaster.

So whats the "one" or rather what works?

Defense: Amavi (DL) and Chester (DC) and Baker (DC)

Midfield: Jedinak (DMC) ... however he gets vulnerable when played higher on the pitch or paired with just a single MC. He had his best games when he is alone in front of back 4 with 2 energetic midfielders in front of him. That does not mean Westwood who is energetic but does challenge for possession in any way that might hurt and doesn't pose a threat to opponents defensive line.
Jedinaks best games have been behind any combination (Gardner or Grealish (LMC) and Bacuna (RMC) in a 5-man midfield or a 4-1-4-1. Westwood can sometimes look even passable when Jedinak can cover behind him so he has less defensive duty. This doesn't really make Westwood shine but makes it less obvious how much of a liability Westy really are.

Attack: Kodjia (CF) and Adomah (attacking  RMC).

Then there is a few positions where we don't have a choise: Gollini (G), Hutton (DR) and Elphick (DC). 

If that selection is the "one" and should not be tampered with unless Baker or Richards get fit again. (Richards or Hutton as RF is about equally shite) the only thing to ponder is where and how to employ Grealish, Ayew, Bacuna ideally maybe RMC, Gardner and Rudy.

However...and this is the point i am trying to make (and was compounded tonight). You do NOT move any of the "given" positions to accommodate a "doubtful"!!!

Bruce have done this a few times now...most notably at Leeds and Norwich:

Moving Ayew from left to right so Gabby can play Center...NO!
Moving Kodjia left so Gabby can play Center...NO!
Playing Gabby....NO!
Playing Westwood beside Jedi so Grealish can play AMC...NO!
Playing Westwood....NO!
All of the above so Rudy can play lone striker...NO!

Hopefully he picks a lineup with some consistency for the rest of the games in December. The rekindled spirit is so fragile he will stamp it out if he keeps experimenting like he did at Leeds and Norwich.
Keep calm, play the obvious and let Dr Tony fix whats broken in January, Bruce...please!

[DeKuip]

Barnsley, Reading and now Norwich - why can't we get home from these midweek away trips without road closures and detours.
I bet they're already planning to cut off the north east on a Monday night in February.

As for the game, we just aren't good enough are we? Bruce has picked up more points but we were much better to watch early season. We'll bore our way to enough points to finish mid-table I suppose.

Oh for a Villa team that gets you off your feet and creates chances, scores goals, has the ability to keep the ball.

[dave17]

Similar to Leeds, poor selection. Gabby, Westwood and ayew poor today. It seemed clear that this was a team to loose - why are gabby and Westwood picks for so many managers when do many of us agree they shouldn't be?

[Matt C]

Very disappointing performance. Poor selection from Bruce but applaud his honesty afterwards.

I've not read the whole thread but I'm guessing I echo others if I say I can't understand how Westwood & Gabby are ahead of Tish & RHM in the pecking order. I don't think Bruce has made too many mistake so far but that is a definite one.

Midfield is the cause of many of our problems. We lack creativity, pace, energy and probably some aggression for this arduous division. Jedinak has settled down well but he needs two new players to help him out.

For all our apparent riches up front we still need major work. Ayew has talent but not equipped for this league - if we can get good money I'd sell. We're not setup to play to Gestede's singular strength and McCormack, while clearly a decent player, just doesn't seem to fit into any system which remotely suits us. Gabby & Kozak are finished.

Hutton is our most limited player in possession so why we keep shouveling the ball out to him is beyond me.

We miss Baker.

We're jinxed on Sky.

[pbavfckuwait]

Gabby why oh why, the ball moves further when he controls it than Westwood can pass it.
Ayew again playing for Ayew and not very good at that either, Hutton is Hutton, Elphick at the moment we have no choice, so thats 5 players that totally change the effectiveness of the team.
The bench scares the crap out of me,as to me it shows Bruce is going to drive the youth from the club, what the Russian must think, Tish and how many more of the youngsters who are watching Gabby, Ayew, Westwood, Cissokho, Gardner and others and think to themselves, well if I cannot even get a seat on the bench with this shit in front of me, I might as well go elsewhere, so are any of those young players good enough, we will never know, or at least not in a Villa shirt.
Bruce needs to do his shopping at the start of January, not at the end and get rid of quite a few who are still part of the illness that has been rotting away at Villa park for far to long. 
He states that a few of them need a kick up the backside and he can see why he was brought in, you have been in the game long enough Brucey to know if something looks like a turd, smells like a turd, it is probably a turd and all your great polishing will not change it.

[Chris Smith]

Poor all over the pitch; too many passes going astray, no closing down the opposition, strikers working in isolation, too slow. Undoubtedly Bruce got the line up wrong but that does not excuse the limp effort and application from the players. Good finish for their goal but it all stemmed from Gabby trying to control a ball that ended up 10 yards away from him.

The manager was honest in his assessment so I just hope he follows it through for Sunday.

[curlytailavfc]

usual crap away from home season over roll on next year

[HK Villan]

I'm staggered Gabby is getting so much time to prove himself.  He's rubbish and has been for years.  Villa need to move on from this paralysing negative influence, and we have the players to do so.  We have a squad capable of much better than this.  I can't believe Bruce waited until 75 mins to make changes when so obviously it wasn't working. Did we even have a shot on goal? 

[Villafirst]

Andre Green, RHM, Tshibola, Bacuna: could they really do any worse than those picked ahead of them? We'll probably lose RHM in January after showing zero confidence in him. He can't even make the bench along with Tshibola. Mystifying!

[oswald funkletrumpet]

Rubbish shape and no attacking threat against leeds
Rubbish shape and no attacking threat against wigan
Rubbish shape and no attacking threat against norwich

i just wish i could see what the problem is

the last three games have been the same as watching an rdm team, bruce needs to wise up and quickly its no good crying after the game when he picked that abomination of a side

Gabby why?
ayew why?
westwood why?
kodija wide why?
wheres tshibola?
why not bacuna for legs in midfield?
why no subs until its too late?
Why so many square pegs in round holes?

the next 3 games has got to be 9 points, no half arsed excuses

This league is fucking shit and we need to start ripping it up

[Marlon From Bearwood]

The most chilling thing a manager can say when confronted by the basket case we had become is that everybody starts with a clean sheet.  It is as hackneyed as it is frightening.  We all knew Gabby was finished as a footballer, we all knew our midfield was inept and weak, we knew Hutton crosses like a JCB, Richards is washed up.  All this and much more has been witnessed time and time again but we still have a manager and coaches who think they are God and can turn Westwood into Fabregas and Gabby into Vardy.  So the crazy team selections and lack of tactical nous and wrong/late substitutions carry on, just like they did under McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Black and RDM.  That performance tonight could have been plucked from any point in last two or three seasons.

Spot on Brian. This has nailed it for me.

As Dave also mentions in his article, we fans are not bigger football experts than Bruce, BUT, we do know more about watching Villa in recent years than him.

To watch the same clowns who let us down, still being picked time and time again, is beyond depressing - it's like a recurring nightmare.

Gabby STILL being paid to wear the first team shirt and represent AVFC?! Jesus that is as absolute piss take.