Ipswich v 0 shots on target Villa Post Match thread

[olaftab]

My first trip to Ipswich. It's just like Norwich. Except for a less good away pub serving less good beer with a less good view of a less good river and a less good ground serving less good pies and with less good locals making a less good atmosphere.

and a less good football team.

[old man villa fan]

I have been a supporter for around 50 years. I have always given my backing to new managers and players because I am a Villa fan.  It seems these days there are many people that make their minds up immediately based on the person not being 'their man' and are then over critical from day one based on diminishing the height of hurdles in front of us and magnifying the importance of relatively small points.  Add to this the ignoring of relevant mitigating factors and then reading some comments, you start to think some people are biased.

[Matt Collins]

I have been a supporter for around 50 years. I have always given my backing to new managers and players because I am a Villa fan.  It seems these days there are many people that make their minds up immediately based on the person not being 'their man' and are then over critical from day one based on diminishing the height of hurdles in front of us and magnifying the importance of relatively small points.  Add to this the ignoring of relevant mitigating factors and then reading some comments, you start to think some people are biased.

True dat

[pauliewalnuts]

I have been a supporter for around 50 years. I have always given my backing to new managers and players because I am a Villa fan.  It seems these days there are many people that make their minds up immediately based on the person not being 'their man' and are then over critical from day one based on diminishing the height of hurdles in front of us and magnifying the importance of relatively small points.  Add to this the ignoring of relevant mitigating factors and then reading some comments, you start to think some people are biased.

I thought he was a good appointment.

I don't think what we've seen so far is anywhere near good enough. At the end of the match yesterday I thought we might as well just sack him now, so shit was it. Having thought about it today, I've calmed down a bit, but we're currently 18th in a league choc full of absolutely shit teams.

That's not good enough, and he needs to fix it really quickly.

[four fornicholl]

I have been a supporter for around 50 years. I have always given my backing to new managers and players because I am a Villa fan.  It seems these days there are many people that make their minds up immediately based on the person not being 'their man' and are then over critical from day one based on diminishing the height of hurdles in front of us and magnifying the importance of relatively small points.  Add to this the ignoring of relevant mitigating factors and then reading some comments, you start to think some people are biased.

I thought he was a good appointment.

I don't think what we've seen so far is anywhere near good enough. At the end of the match yesterday I thought we might as well just sack him now, so shit was it. Having thought about it today, I've calmed down a bit, but we're currently 18th in a league choc full of absolutely shit teams.

That's not good enough, and he needs to fix it really quickly.

That's a mirror image of how I feel/felt.

[Mister E]

I have been a supporter for around 50 years. I have always given my backing to new managers and players because I am a Villa fan.  It seems these days there are many people that make their minds up immediately based on the person not being 'their man' and are then over critical from day one based on diminishing the height of hurdles in front of us and magnifying the importance of relatively small points.  Add to this the ignoring of relevant mitigating factors and then reading some comments, you start to think some people are biased.

I thought he was a good appointment.

I don't think what we've seen so far is anywhere near good enough. At the end of the match yesterday I thought we might as well just sack him now, so shit was it. Having thought about it today, I've calmed down a bit, but we're currently 18th in a league choc full of absolutely shit teams.

That's not good enough, and he needs to fix it really quickly.

That's a mirror image of how I feel/felt.

Im also a fan of around 50 years standing.
I am working on the basis that it takes a while to integrate players into a squad and that it will take a while for both Clarke and RdM to get it together.
But I feel that this is a very positive view of the current situation.

[Marton]

What worries me it RDM doesn't seem to grasp what his team need , at least not during games.
At the Ipswich game while Westwood was being stitched up, there was 3-4 players going to the side seeking some instruction how to handle something (could be anything as both defense and attack was getting progressively worse). RDM totally ignores them, do not engage any of them,this is despite having an excellent chance to do so. Later when we did changes , he wasn't even animated. Assistants did everything.

My view is that RDM is delegating leader, but as anyone who had leadership training knows that you have to engage a group differently based on the state of the factors "motivation" and "skill or knowhow". This is the most basic form of group management theory and surely must be a part of the mandated coachingclasses needed to get a licence:

1st stage ) A fresh team (like a youth squad or a newly composed team), usually doesn't need to be motivated but the do need alot of instruction. As the group progress, they gain skill but as it starts from a low point there are often setbacks and confidence drops.

2nd stage ) Not yet proficient and with confidence dropping. Now they need both instruction and pep. This is the most unproductive  phase as there is Confusion about What to do and lacking the drive to learn how.(This is where I think Villa are right now).

3rd stage ) When it becomes clear on how to play, it takes a while until the squads see the progress (especially if the results doesn't always reflect the better play the instant the team gels and the players "get it"). This is the stage when the leader has to "pep" or support  but can scale back on instructions as player know what to do, they just need belief in that they can.

4rd stage ) This the performance stage as skill and motivation peek. The leader can now delegate and trust the team to handle the task by just expressing priority and enable and empower. (Example here is Barcelona or Chelsea when RDM inherited them).

So we got a team that is quite talented but quickly dropping to stage 2 with a manager that only know how to manage a stage 4 teams....Result the manager expects them to just execute and the team needs to know how to play (together) and has a quickly fading belief that they can do it.

Newcastle while we are like this looks scary, but you hope that what we see from the outside is quite wrong and RDM is doing all the moves during the week, because at gameday he looks as oblivious and clueless as Dim-Tim and as uninterested as Remi Garde.

[Clark W Griswold]

Yes, he's been a bit wank so far hasn't he.

[DeKuip]

To even suggest a manager should be sacked after 8 games is ridiculous.
If we start going down that road we'll never have any stability and will stay out of the top flight for as long as Leeds, Forest, Derby etc etc.
If we've made such a castrophic appointment that it's proved wrong after 8 games then it's the person who's made that appointment that is the real problem.

[four fornicholl]

To even suggest a manager should be sacked after 8 games is ridiculous.
If we start going down that road we'll never have any stability and will stay out of the top flight for as long as Leeds, Forest, Derby etc etc.
If we've made such a castrophic appointment that it's proved wrong after 8 games then it's the person who's made that appointment that is the real problem.

Who is that person is what I wonder?

[CT Villan]

What worries me it RDM doesn't seem to grasp what his team need , at least not during games.
At the Ipswich game while Westwood was being stitched up, there was 3-4 players going to the side seeking some instruction how to handle something (could be anything as both defense and attack was getting progressively worse). RDM totally ignores them, do not engage any of them,this is despite having an excellent chance to do so. Later when we did changes , he wasn't even animated. Assistants did everything.

My view is that RDM is delegating leader, but as anyone who had leadership training knows that you have to engage a group differently based on the state of the factors "motivation" and "skill or knowhow". This is the most basic form of group management theory and surely must be a part of the mandated coachingclasses needed to get a licence:

1st stage ) A fresh team (like a youth squad or a newly composed team), usually doesn't need to be motivated but the do need alot of instruction. As the group progress, they gain skill but as it starts from a low point there are often setbacks and confidence drops.

2nd stage ) Not yet proficient and with confidence dropping. Now they need both instruction and pep. This is the most unproductive  phase as there is Confusion about What to do and lacking the drive to learn how.(This is where I think Villa are right now).

3rd stage ) When it becomes clear on how to play, it takes a while until the squads see the progress (especially if the results doesn't always reflect the better play the instant the team gels and the players "get it"). This is the stage when the leader has to "pep" or support  but can scale back on instructions as player know what to do, they just need belief in that they can.

4rd stage ) This the performance stage as skill and motivation peek. The leader can now delegate and trust the team to handle the task by just expressing priority and enable and empower. (Example here is Barcelona or Chelsea when RDM inherited them).

So we got a team that is quite talented but quickly dropping to stage 2 with a manager that only know how to manage a stage 4 teams....Result the manager expects them to just execute and the team needs to know how to play (together) and has a quickly fading belief that they can do it.

Newcastle while we are like this looks scary, but you hope that what we see from the outside is quite wrong and RDM is doing all the moves during the week, because at gameday he looks as oblivious and clueless as Dim-Tim and as uninterested as Remi Garde.

So where does RDM's promotion with WBA fit into this theory ?

[Marton]

What worries me it RDM doesn't seem to grasp what his team need , at least not during games.
At the Ipswich game while Westwood was being stitched up, there was 3-4 players going to the side seeking some instruction how to handle something (could be anything as both defense and attack was getting progressively worse). RDM totally ignores them, do not engage any of them,this is despite having an excellent chance to do so. Later when we did changes , he wasn't even animated. Assistants did everything.

My view is that RDM is delegating leader, but as anyone who had leadership training knows that you have to engage a group differently based on the state of the factors "motivation" and "skill or knowhow". This is the most basic form of group management theory and surely must be a part of the mandated coachingclasses needed to get a licence:

1st stage ) A fresh team (like a youth squad or a newly composed team), usually doesn't need to be motivated but the do need alot of instruction. As the group progress, they gain skill but as it starts from a low point there are often setbacks and confidence drops.

2nd stage ) Not yet proficient and with confidence dropping. Now they need both instruction and pep. This is the most unproductive  phase as there is Confusion about What to do and lacking the drive to learn how.(This is where I think Villa are right now).

3rd stage ) When it becomes clear on how to play, it takes a while until the squads see the progress (especially if the results doesn't always reflect the better play the instant the team gels and the players "get it"). This is the stage when the leader has to "pep" or support  but can scale back on instructions as player know what to do, they just need belief in that they can.

4rd stage ) This the performance stage as skill and motivation peek. The leader can now delegate and trust the team to handle the task by just expressing priority and enable and empower. (Example here is Barcelona or Chelsea when RDM inherited them).

So we got a team that is quite talented but quickly dropping to stage 2 with a manager that only know how to manage a stage 4 teams....Result the manager expects them to just execute and the team needs to know how to play (together) and has a quickly fading belief that they can do it.

Newcastle while we are like this looks scary, but you hope that what we see from the outside is quite wrong and RDM is doing all the moves during the week, because at gameday he looks as oblivious and clueless as Dim-Tim and as uninterested as Remi Garde.

So where does RDM's promotion with WBA fit into this theory ?

I do not know how WBA earned that promotion but my guess (since they did get promoted)that had both confidence and a winning concept (by WBA standards) when RDM got them promoted. That makes sense for a delegating manager as a phase 4 group does fit with delegating coaches. However if WBA that season started out as a dysfunctional unit it suggests that RDM are indeed capable of flexible management...however I do not follow WBA so I really cant say but my guess is that WBA-team was a contender from the start and RDM didn't have to build confidence and invent a winning tactic. This is very basic leadership theory but its easily adoptable to apply on Football Manager Personas for Sports-book betting purposes.

There are a lot of other factors but do you  not agree that this team.... on the back of last season, the huge restructuring during summer transfer window and the defeatism that have been reigning at VP for years....would benefit from a Manager that can both motivate and instruct? Especially from the sideline during games when doubt,pressure, fear and confusion is evidently ravaging our beloved Villa. He just sits there watching how we implode without offering help or support. Its heartbreaking.

Any way my point is that he may be excellent if we find balance in the team and string together a few good results and start to dominate the full 90 mins against teams that is way less talented. But is he dynamic and flexible enough to make that happen?  I had hope for RDM... now I have doubts...because of how he behaves during games. It might not be the entire truth...but it looks like a bad fit.

[Steve67]

Statistics are an arse. I'd like us to be doing so much better but the truth is we have lost twice in 8 games. Yes, only won once, but, so many new players that need time to get used to each other. I am not and never was RDM's biggest fan but even he is going to need around half a season to get this shit sorted.  We expect some players to be world beaters, instantly. Never going to happen, particularly with the injuries and the fact that pointy gets in every week.

[cdward]

i listened to the Brentford game on Radio WM, and Garry Thompson noticed that RDM and Clarke came out for the second half a good 2 or 3 minutes before the players did. He seemed amazed that a manager should do this, and said he had never seen it or experienced it before.
I did wonder if RDM had left the team doing their own team talk. If would certainly explain the drop off in the second half of that game.

[chrisw1]

What worries me it RDM doesn't seem to grasp what his team need , at least not during games.
At the Ipswich game while Westwood was being stitched up, there was 3-4 players going to the side seeking some instruction how to handle something (could be anything as both defense and attack was getting progressively worse). RDM totally ignores them, do not engage any of them,this is despite having an excellent chance to do so. Later when we did changes , he wasn't even animated. Assistants did everything.

My view is that RDM is delegating leader, but as anyone who had leadership training knows that you have to engage a group differently based on the state of the factors "motivation" and "skill or knowhow". This is the most basic form of group management theory and surely must be a part of the mandated coachingclasses needed to get a licence:

1st stage ) A fresh team (like a youth squad or a newly composed team), usually doesn't need to be motivated but the do need alot of instruction. As the group progress, they gain skill but as it starts from a low point there are often setbacks and confidence drops.

2nd stage ) Not yet proficient and with confidence dropping. Now they need both instruction and pep. This is the most unproductive  phase as there is Confusion about What to do and lacking the drive to learn how.(This is where I think Villa are right now).

3rd stage ) When it becomes clear on how to play, it takes a while until the squads see the progress (especially if the results doesn't always reflect the better play the instant the team gels and the players "get it"). This is the stage when the leader has to "pep" or support  but can scale back on instructions as player know what to do, they just need belief in that they can.

4rd stage ) This the performance stage as skill and motivation peek. The leader can now delegate and trust the team to handle the task by just expressing priority and enable and empower. (Example here is Barcelona or Chelsea when RDM inherited them).

So we got a team that is quite talented but quickly dropping to stage 2 with a manager that only know how to manage a stage 4 teams....Result the manager expects them to just execute and the team needs to know how to play (together) and has a quickly fading belief that they can do it.

Newcastle while we are like this looks scary, but you hope that what we see from the outside is quite wrong and RDM is doing all the moves during the week, because at gameday he looks as oblivious and clueless as Dim-Tim and as uninterested as Remi Garde.

Academics amaze me.  All those words to say you need to coach a team to play well and once they are doing so and have confidence and a winning formula it becomes a bit easier?

I bet Fergie couldn't get enough of management models and leadership courses.