Welcome Roberto Di Matteo and Steve Clarke

[ChicagoLion]

You can tell when player is probably not very good, people starting talking about moving them out of their natural position!

He's good enough for the league we are in.

Allan Evans came to us as a Centre forward and moved to Centre half
Chris Sutton started life as a CH and moved to be a CF
Kenny Swain IIRC started life as a winger
Gareth Bale was bought as a LB and moved to attack

I am sure there are many more examples that show a player can change their position as they gain experience

I do agree though that as much as I like him Clark is not good enough for where we want to be either reading the game, physically or able to hold concentration

Gareth Barry was a central defender, then a left-back, then a left-sided midfielder before settling back in as a central midfielder (where he started).  It happens a lot and actually one of the biggest failings on the academy structure for English clubs is that we don't do it a lot more often.  By the time a player reaches 17-18 they really should have played in 3-4 different positions and learned how to play each role to a decent level (other than for goalkeepers obviously).  That's how you get central defenders who are comfortable on the ball or midfielders who are comfortable in stepping across and covering a fullback who's been caught up field.  I think that experience generates players who are naturally more intelligent and can read and understand the game better because they see it from different perspectives.

this is what they do at Ajax

[paul_e]

You can tell when player is probably not very good, people starting talking about moving them out of their natural position!

He's good enough for the league we are in.

Allan Evans came to us as a Centre forward and moved to Centre half
Chris Sutton started life as a CH and moved to be a CF
Kenny Swain IIRC started life as a winger
Gareth Bale was bought as a LB and moved to attack

I am sure there are many more examples that show a player can change their position as they gain experience

I do agree though that as much as I like him Clark is not good enough for where we want to be either reading the game, physically or able to hold concentration

Gareth Barry was a central defender, then a left-back, then a left-sided midfielder before settling back in as a central midfielder (where he started).  It happens a lot and actually one of the biggest failings on the academy structure for English clubs is that we don't do it a lot more often.  By the time a player reaches 17-18 they really should have played in 3-4 different positions and learned how to play each role to a decent level (other than for goalkeepers obviously).  That's how you get central defenders who are comfortable on the ball or midfielders who are comfortable in stepping across and covering a fullback who's been caught up field.  I think that experience generates players who are naturally more intelligent and can read and understand the game better because they see it from different perspectives.

this is what they do at Ajax

Also Barca and Bayern to name a few.

[Risso]

You can tell when player is probably not very good, people starting talking about moving them out of their natural position!

He's good enough for the league we are in.

Allan Evans came to us as a Centre forward and moved to Centre half
Chris Sutton started life as a CH and moved to be a CF
Kenny Swain IIRC started life as a winger
Gareth Bale was bought as a LB and moved to attack

I am sure there are many more examples that show a player can change their position as they gain experience

I do agree though that as much as I like him Clark is not good enough for where we want to be either reading the game, physically or able to hold concentration

Gareth Barry was a central defender, then a left-back, then a left-sided midfielder before settling back in as a central midfielder (where he started).  It happens a lot and actually one of the biggest failings on the academy structure for English clubs is that we don't do it a lot more often.  By the time a player reaches 17-18 they really should have played in 3-4 different positions and learned how to play each role to a decent level (other than for goalkeepers obviously).  That's how you get central defenders who are comfortable on the ball or midfielders who are comfortable in stepping across and covering a fullback who's been caught up field.  I think that experience generates players who are naturally more intelligent and can read and understand the game better because they see it from different perspectives.

this is what they do at Ajax

Also Barca and Bayern to name a few.

It's fine to do when a player has displayed that they're going to be good in a position, such as Gareth Southgate as another example.

At Villa though, it's nearly always been the case recently that the player in question is crap, somebody says "there's a player in there somewhere" and then somebody else suggests playing them in a different position in the forlorn hope that they will be less crap than whatever talentless twat we've got playing there at the moment.

Examples include - Joe Bennett, shit at right back, so suggestions he should play on the wing.  Ciaran Clark, crap as a central defender, so should play in midfield.  Gabriel Agbonlahor, crap as a striker, so should be used as temporary flood barrier in case the London one isn't up to the job.

I don't think any of our current players who have been shit in their position of choice are good enough to reinvent themselves in a new position.  We don't have anybody anywhere near as good as Southgate or Barry.  If they're rubbish, get rid of them, and buy the right players for the job.

[LeeB]

I agree with Risso.


*spits on floor*

[paul_e]

You can tell when player is probably not very good, people starting talking about moving them out of their natural position!

He's good enough for the league we are in.

Allan Evans came to us as a Centre forward and moved to Centre half
Chris Sutton started life as a CH and moved to be a CF
Kenny Swain IIRC started life as a winger
Gareth Bale was bought as a LB and moved to attack

I am sure there are many more examples that show a player can change their position as they gain experience

I do agree though that as much as I like him Clark is not good enough for where we want to be either reading the game, physically or able to hold concentration

Gareth Barry was a central defender, then a left-back, then a left-sided midfielder before settling back in as a central midfielder (where he started).  It happens a lot and actually one of the biggest failings on the academy structure for English clubs is that we don't do it a lot more often.  By the time a player reaches 17-18 they really should have played in 3-4 different positions and learned how to play each role to a decent level (other than for goalkeepers obviously).  That's how you get central defenders who are comfortable on the ball or midfielders who are comfortable in stepping across and covering a fullback who's been caught up field.  I think that experience generates players who are naturally more intelligent and can read and understand the game better because they see it from different perspectives.

this is what they do at Ajax

Also Barca and Bayern to name a few.

It's fine to do when a player has displayed that they're going to be good in a position, such as Gareth Southgate as another example.

At Villa though, it's nearly always been the case recently that the player in question is crap, somebody says "there's a player in there somewhere" and then somebody else suggests playing them in a different position in the forlorn hope that they will be less crap than whatever talentless twat we've got playing there at the moment.

Examples include - Joe Bennett, shit at right back, so suggestions he should play on the wing.  Ciaran Clark, crap as a central defender, so should play in midfield.  Gabriel Agbonlahor, crap as a striker, so should be used as temporary flood barrier in case the London one isn't up to the job.

I don't think any of our current players who have been shit in their position of choice are good enough to reinvent themselves in a new position.  We don't have anybody anywhere near as good as Southgate or Barry.  If they're rubbish, get rid of them, and buy the right players for the job.

the point you're missing there is that those players are already too old for it, making a 22-25 year old switch positions is either to fill a gap or because they're not good enough, sometimes it works but generally not.  Getting them playing those positions in the academy (or before) is giving a rounded 'education' as a footballer and helps develop higher standards.

To draw some examples: In English rugby (I know I bring it up too often) the positions tend not to be changed but every young player now gets coached to do every role, and you get more rounded players who can cope better with changing circumstances in a game.  This general upskilling is why we have a very young side who are ranked 2nd in the world (and will close the gap on NZ over the next 18 months).

In the cricket the same is true, being a good young bowler or batsman isn't good enough for England anymore, you either need to be an all rounder or be a damn fine fielder to make it into the England team and that upskilling means we currently hold 8 of the 9 test trophies available to us and are rapidly improving in the ODI and T20 stakes as well.

Basic skills and a thorough understanding of the game from a young age is a huge advantage and turns average players into good ones.  It won't create world class players but it will drag the general standard up and improve the club naturally.

[LeeB]

I've played in every position in my footballing days, not a few games here or there but long stretches. It certainly made me a more completely useless footballer than I would otherwise have been.

[DaveD]

I played in a team where the faces changed nearly every week, and the skipper would always ask everyone where they played and stick me in the gap ! I once went a whole season without playing in the same position in consecutive weeks.

[Villa in Denmark]

I played in a team where the faces changed nearly every week, and the skipper would always ask everyone where they played and stick me in the gap ! I once went a whole season without playing in the same position in consecutive weeks.

Surely the captain could see that you were a natural right winger

[DaveD]

I played in a team where the faces changed nearly every week, and the skipper would always ask everyone where they played and stick me in the gap ! I once went a whole season without playing in the same position in consecutive weeks.

Surely the captain could see that you were a natural right winger

Like it.

Actually I usually played in the centre, with a right sided preference, but occasionally deployed on the left. Hmmm.

[Louzie0]

I've played in every position in my footballing days, not a few games here or there but long stretches. It certainly made me a more completely useless footballer than I would otherwise have been.

As a natural centre forward, you couldn't flourish under these conditions.
Or as a natural goalkeeper.
Either way, just saying.



Hashtag, Release the winger?
Difficult to know from your post.

[Louzie0]

I played in a team where the faces changed nearly every week, and the skipper would always ask everyone where they played and stick me in the gap ! I once went a whole season without playing in the same position in consecutive weeks.

Surely the captain could see that you were a natural right winger

Like it.

Actually I usually played in the centre, with a right sided preference, but occasionally deployed on the left. Hmmm.

Excellent.
Once we find out what Lee is, we could begin to have a team!

[Stirchley Villain]

Carlos Sanchez in goal.

[Dante Lavelli]

With Clark , I don't think it is the level he plays.
He is a genuine footballer but an awful decision maker and that will be with him where ever he plays.

In which case there might be hope, as decision making will improve with experience and crucially coaching.

[Mister E]

With Clark , I don't think it is the level he plays.
He is a genuine footballer but an awful decision maker and that will be with him where ever he plays.

In which case their might be hope, as decision making will improve with experience and crucially coaching.

Agreed - Clark is a footballer but has a poor decision-making capacity; this may change with coaching or he is too set in his ways or thick to adapt. Next season, with a set of decent coaches, will be his crucial one - as per Baker, and several others.

[peter w]

I wonder if di Matteo and Clarke have been sitting with a box set of DVS from last season watching the games (they've yet to resign so probably not). otherwise I hope they aren't waiting to see how the players respond in training before deciding who to keep and who to get rid of. Also, who is the continuity person? Sir Brian? One of the coaches like Sid (if he's still there)? Someone who can let the manager know what went on last season and who needs to go - although clearly that is the manager's decision. How do we know that they will make the right decisions?