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Author Topic: Hillsborough  (Read 41730 times)

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #255 on: June 29, 2018, 10:40:25 PM »
I do have a little bit of sympathy with Duckinfield as he has been laid out as the main culprit - Even imprisonment would not be enough for some people they will then want to commence civil proceedings. 

A  lot of bad issues occured that day, but one man (and I am fully aware others are being sent to trial) has already been found  guilty, when in fact it was negligence not intended that caused the event.

Compare  Duckinfield to a person who kills whilst driving holding a mobile phone.  I know who I would reserve my anger towards.

That's as crass a statement as I think I've ever read on here.  Strangely enough you showed sympathy for Duckenfield a year and a day ago as well, and it was unwarranted then as it is now.  I was going to suggest you skip back four pages and read my response to you then, but instead I'm going to paste part of it here for you and anyone else who still thinks this man has been hard done by.   


Duckenfield gave the order to open the gates. At the same time he failed to recognise the need to close the central pens. These decisions, his decisions, led directly to the deaths of 96 people. It was a catastrophic error of judgment. Had he done his homework and familiarised himself with the stadium layout he may not have made these terrible decisions. But he did not do that, hence he was unprepared and ill-equipped to deal with the scenario. That was gross negligence.

When he realised his error, he compounded it by claiming that he had not ordered that the gates be opened, and that the fans had stormed them. That was an outright lie.

It really mustn't be forgotten that that lie, and the whole cover-up, started right there, right then, in that stadium while the dead were still dying.  The seeds of conspiracy were being sown by Duckenfield and his employers as early as that.

Duckenfield is no scapegoat, he richly deserves his manslaughter charge, as do the others who stand accused of perjury and whatever else their corruption has been labelled. None of them deserves an ounce of sympathy.


There were tens of thousands of documents released as part of the independent inquiry that tell the story and show the magnitude of Duckenfield's crimes.  I believe they're still available to read should my words not be convincing enough.


Offline AV82EC

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #256 on: June 29, 2018, 10:48:07 PM »
As I think someone from the HFSG said about 20 years ago, all we wanted was an apology for someone to say sorry and that mistakes had been made. If Duckinfield had done that rather than lie and try to get his mates to cover up his incompetence we wouldn’t be here now. He deserves everything he gets, the craven coward. As do the others charged today.

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #257 on: June 29, 2018, 10:57:02 PM »
Precisely. An ounce of responsibility taken and remorse shown and things might have been very different.

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #258 on: June 30, 2018, 12:01:36 PM »


Compare  Duckinfield to a person who kills whilst driving holding a mobile phone.  I know who I would reserve my anger towards.

This deserves a special H&V award.

Offline JD

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #259 on: July 01, 2018, 03:09:26 AM »
As I think someone from the HFSG said about 20 years ago, all we wanted was an apology for someone to say sorry and that mistakes had been made. If Duckinfield had done that rather than lie and try to get his mates to cover up his incompetence we wouldn’t be here now. He deserves everything he gets, the craven coward. As do the others charged today.

Agree with this. If he had come out and said it was all a mistake and everyone was sorry for the tragic events that unfolded that day then it would have been accepted. Instead family and friends of innocent victims had to go through years of grief, knockbacks and heartache to prove the supporters were innocent and not responsible for causing these deaths.
Therefore by his actions, his lies and arrogant attitude, he deserves everything that now gets thrown at him. As AV82 has stated, the man is a coward. 

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #260 on: July 01, 2018, 07:56:05 AM »
As I think someone from the HFSG said about 20 years ago, all we wanted was an apology for someone to say sorry and that mistakes had been made. If Duckinfield had done that rather than lie and try to get his mates to cover up his incompetence we wouldn’t be here now. He deserves everything he gets, the craven coward. As do the others charged today.

Pete Garrett from the FSA said it to me. I don't know if the campaign groups have ever had that position.

Offline kippaxvilla2

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #261 on: July 01, 2018, 08:26:45 PM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ypE5TG2UPNk

Some interesting stuff on here on the night it happened.  Jimmy and Des worked out the issue of the gate and the central pen pretty insightfully for me here.  Also featured on this are The Secretary of Sheff Weds - looking suitably worried as well as Graham Kelly and Bert ‘not my problem guv’ Millichip as well as an interesting interview with the Chief Constable.

Offline TopDeck113

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #262 on: July 01, 2018, 09:05:10 PM »
Duckinfield (and Mackrell) being found guilty will hopefully finally bring closure for the families in the sense that criminal justice will seen be be done. 

Duckinfield was a liar from the outset and subsequently a coward. He ultimately, if belatedly, deserves whatever he gets.  I do though have a minuscule amount sympathy for him on a human level, insomuch that whilst what he did and said remains unforgivable, he's had to live with the consequences of his actions for nigh on thirty years.  He also must have known full well which way the wind was now blowing from the moment the Hillsborough Independent Panel published its report and one day criminal charges would be brought. I really don't know how anyone can be anything other than crushed with the enormity of that mental burden. 

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #263 on: July 01, 2018, 09:15:17 PM »
He chose to live with that burden for thirty years. At any point he could have taken responsibility and told the truth, but instead he chose to sit tight and hope he'd never be found out, while hundreds of families suffered real pain as a result of his actions.

Offline TopDeck113

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #264 on: July 01, 2018, 09:41:03 PM »
I don't disagree: he has done nothing but compound his original catastrophic error of judgement. That and sowing the seeds of the cover-up mean he deserves to be punished. However, as I said, I can't imagine how he can live with that.

Offline Nev

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #265 on: July 02, 2018, 10:49:14 AM »
It's a pity Thatcher isn't alive, she should be in the dock along with the others.

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #266 on: July 02, 2018, 12:10:59 PM »
Bernard Ingham's still kicking around, he could always be strung up on both his and Thatcher's behalf.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #267 on: July 02, 2018, 06:28:29 PM »
Duckinfield (and Mackrell) being found guilty will hopefully finally bring closure for the families in the sense that criminal justice will seen be be done. 

Duckinfield was a liar from the outset and subsequently a coward. He ultimately, if belatedly, deserves whatever he gets.  I do though have a minuscule amount sympathy for him on a human level, insomuch that whilst what he did and said remains unforgivable, he's had to live with the consequences of his actions for nigh on thirty years.  He also must have known full well which way the wind was now blowing from the moment the Hillsborough Independent Panel published its report and one day criminal charges would be brought. I really don't know how anyone can be anything other than crushed with the enormity of that mental burden. 

You are more compassionate man than me. I don't really care about any personal torment he has felt. If the shit hadn't spent 30 years fibbing on a frequent basis then those families would not have suffered what they did.

He was arrogant, fucked it up and hurled shit every which way to cover his arse from the outset.

I hope the bastard can feel some more torment as he ends his days in a prison cell.

Offline Hopadop

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #268 on: July 02, 2018, 08:09:55 PM »
Duckinfield (and Mackrell) being found guilty will hopefully finally bring closure for the families in the sense that criminal justice will seen be be done. 

Duckinfield was a liar from the outset and subsequently a coward. He ultimately, if belatedly, deserves whatever he gets.  I do though have a minuscule amount sympathy for him on a human level, insomuch that whilst what he did and said remains unforgivable, he's had to live with the consequences of his actions for nigh on thirty years.  He also must have known full well which way the wind was now blowing from the moment the Hillsborough Independent Panel published its report and one day criminal charges would be brought. I really don't know how anyone can be anything other than crushed with the enormity of that mental burden. 

You are more compassionate man than me. I don't really care about any personal torment he has felt. If the shit hadn't spent 30 years fibbing on a frequent basis then those families would not have suffered what they did.

He was arrogant, fucked it up and hurled shit every which way to cover his arse from the outset.

I hope the bastard can feel some more torment as he ends his days in a prison cell.

The bits I've highlighted just aren't true.

He lied to Graham Kelly at the time in the control box about the police opening the exit gate. He admitted to Lord Taylor months later that he hadn't told Kelly the truth and exonerated the supporters of blame (but by then The Sun et al were following their own narrative). He admitted the lie in his evidence to the second coroner's hearing and that his actions led to the deaths.

That aside he's been silent so far as I know. Certainly not fibbing on a frequent basis or hurling shit around.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #269 on: July 03, 2018, 07:23:10 AM »
Perhaps I was too harsh because it touches a close nerve with me. I still hold him responsible for starting to implement "The fix" from the outset, telling porkies in the immediate aftermath and at the first enquiry, and not having the common decency to apologise and admit his errors for donkeys years after. And he did hurl shit. Like the fans breaking down the gates and being compliant with the Police and Government in the subsequent cover up. I don't think it was my best worded post but that is where it was coming from. And I still have zero compassion for him.

 


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