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Author Topic: Hillsborough  (Read 41724 times)

Online maidstonevillain

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #180 on: June 28, 2017, 01:35:59 PM »
I think Duckinfield will be found innocent. He was a copper put in a position where he was out of his depth, and panicked.  Not gross negligence in my view.


Offline Damo70

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #181 on: June 28, 2017, 01:39:54 PM »
For me it isn't about punishing people for mistakes. It is about covering up, lying and deflecting blame. And a distinct lack of genuine empathy or sorrow.

Offline wittonwarrior

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #182 on: June 28, 2017, 01:40:02 PM »
See wm police are still being investigated over a possible cover up

To be honest I think it is about time things get wrapped up and people move on. If you lived where I live just outside from Liverpool you would understand my comment. It dominates far to many people's minds  who had no direct involvement

Hill borough was tragic but where does it end.  On the flick people like Bettison appear on the surface to be well let's say not my kind of folk

I do feel sorry for duckinfield in that he appears to have been made a scapegoat. He panicked. His only real mistake in my eyes was trying to cover it up.

If you do want to proportion blame then surely the fa should be included for not checking the grounds safety certificate

Finally despite everything the leppings lane remains the same. Something we all need to take responsibility for

Offline Damo70

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #183 on: June 28, 2017, 01:47:59 PM »
See wm police are still being investigated over a possible cover up

To be honest I think it is about time things get wrapped up and people move on. If you lived where I live just outside from Liverpool you would understand my comment. It dominates far to many people's minds  who had no direct involvement

Hill borough was tragic but where does it end.  On the flick people like Bettison appear on the surface to be well let's say not my kind of folk

I do feel sorry for duckinfield in that he appears to have been made a scapegoat. He panicked. His only real mistake in my eyes was trying to cover it up.

If you do want to proportion blame then surely the fa should be included for not checking the grounds safety certificate

Finally despite everything the leppings lane remains the same. Something we all need to take responsibility for



I don't think I could dismiss his cover up as a 'mistake'. I'm sure it is a bit more serious than that as the phrase 'manslauter suggests. But I do totally agree that the FA appear to have got off very lightly.

Online aj2k77

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #184 on: June 28, 2017, 01:55:58 PM »
His only real mistake was to put the blame for the incident on innocent people who for years were demonised in some quarters as drunken scum when the people who were paid to ensure their safety let them down. That's not just a mistake, it's cowardly, disgusting and criminal.

Offline Nev

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #185 on: June 28, 2017, 01:57:30 PM »
Well I hope it doesn't end, I hope people continue to fight for justice, continue to shout and scream when it is not served, to demonstrate, to petition, to seek truth and to hold those in the wrong to account. Without those strong hearts and minds the world would be a much poorer place

From Amnesty to Anti-Aparthied, from the glorious beacon of the Hillsborough families to the small group of concerned residents at Grenfell. Call the bastards out. Every time.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #186 on: June 28, 2017, 02:14:30 PM »
See wm police are still being investigated over a possible cover up

To be honest I think it is about time things get wrapped up and people move on. If you lived where I live just outside from Liverpool you would understand my comment. It dominates far to many people's minds  who had no direct involvement

Hill borough was tragic but where does it end.  On the flick people like Bettison appear on the surface to be well let's say not my kind of folk

I do feel sorry for duckinfield in that he appears to have been made a scapegoat. He panicked. His only real mistake in my eyes was trying to cover it up.

If you do want to proportion blame then surely the fa should be included for not checking the grounds safety certificate

Finally despite everything the leppings lane remains the same. Something we all need to take responsibility for



I don't think I could dismiss his cover up as a 'mistake'. I'm sure it is a bit more serious than that as the phrase 'manslauter suggests. But I do totally agree that the FA appear to have got off very lightly.

Agree Damo.  They seem to have been absolved of any blame which is very questionable given as semi finals are 'their' matches.

Offline Damo70

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #187 on: June 28, 2017, 02:27:04 PM »
I seem to remember that sour faced tw*t Graham Kelly from the FA like a rabbit stuck in the headlights desperately searching for excuses and somebody to blame. I've just Googled him. Take a wild guess which year he quit. I will give you a clue. It was between 1988 and 1990.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #188 on: June 28, 2017, 02:36:44 PM »
I seem to remember that sour faced tw*t Graham Kelly from the FA like a rabbit stuck in the headlights desperately searching for excuses and somebody to blame. I've just Googled him. Take a wild guess which year he quit. I will give you a clue. It was between 1988 and 1990.

That was the year he joined the FA.

Online maidstonevillain

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #189 on: June 28, 2017, 02:37:04 PM »
His only real mistake was to put the blame for the incident on innocent people who for years were demonised in some quarters as drunken scum when the people who were paid to ensure their safety let them down. That's not just a mistake, it's cowardly, disgusting and criminal.

But it's not manslaughter.  It was also others that were allegedly more involved in the blame game, and who quite rightly are being charged.

Online aj2k77

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #190 on: June 28, 2017, 07:06:03 PM »
His only real mistake was to put the blame for the incident on innocent people who for years were demonised in some quarters as drunken scum when the people who were paid to ensure their safety let them down. That's not just a mistake, it's cowardly, disgusting and criminal.

But it's not manslaughter.  It was also others that were allegedly more involved in the blame game, and who quite rightly are being charged.

Fair point, I don't know the full ins and outs of the case and the personalities involved but at the very least he's perverted the cause of justice.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #191 on: June 28, 2017, 07:15:21 PM »
But hasn't been charged with that.

Offline wittonwarrior

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #192 on: June 28, 2017, 07:23:08 PM »
Satisfied to see that someone from Sheff Wed has been charged.  I hate the way they call  it the Liverpool Disaster.  Could easily have been  the Tottenham tragedy (their semi v  Wolves had shades  of a similar  issue)  or some other club.  Still can't believe they think that filter tunnel is safe.

Sheff Wed away is a good by pricey day out, pity they didn't rebuild the stand.

Offline Ads

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #193 on: June 28, 2017, 09:02:06 PM »
The coroner of the original enquiry was a bellend. Refusing to take evidence of anything that happened after 15:15 because "all victims were dead", despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary.

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #194 on: June 28, 2017, 09:32:20 PM »
See wm police are still being investigated over a possible cover up

To be honest I think it is about time things get wrapped up and people move on. If you lived where I live just outside from Liverpool you would understand my comment. It dominates far to many people's minds  who had no direct involvement

Hill borough was tragic but where does it end.  On the flick people like Bettison appear on the surface to be well let's say not my kind of folk

I do feel sorry for duckinfield in that he appears to have been made a scapegoat. He panicked. His only real mistake in my eyes was trying to cover it up.

If you do want to proportion blame then surely the fa should be included for not checking the grounds safety certificate

Finally despite everything the leppings lane remains the same. Something we all need to take responsibility for

A couple of things here that I have to take issue with.

David Duckenfield's lies were not "his only real mistake". Duckenfield gave the order to open the gates. At the same time he failed to recognise the need to close the central pens. These decisions, his decisions, led directly to the deaths of 96 people. It was a catastrophic error of judgment. Had he done his homework and familiarised himself with the stadium layout he may not have made these terrible decisions. But he did not do that, hence he was unprepared and ill-equipped to deal with the scenario. That was gross negligence.

When he realised his error, he compounded it by claiming that he had not ordered that the gates be opened, and that the fans had stormed them. That was an outright lie.

It really mustn't be forgotten that that lie, and the whole cover-up, started right there, right then, in that stadium while the dead were still dying.  The seeds of conspiracy were being sown by Duckenfield and his employers as early as that.

Duckenfield is no scapegoat, he richly deserves his manslaughter charge, as do the others who stand accused of perjury and whatever else their corruption has been labelled. None of them deserves an ounce of sympathy.

I agree that the FA has got off very lightly here. I'm not sure how or why.

Where does it end? It ends when justice has been done. When those responsible for the tragedy and the conspiracy have been held to account.

Over the last twenty-five years I've heard plenty of calls for the people of Liverpool to move on; let it go, Liverpool, you've made your point, stop wallowing. Thankfully they didn't; the families - with the support of the whole city, including those you'd deem not directly involved - wouldn't let it go, and it's that persistence from that huge number of people that's got them this far.

You can only admire the incredible resilience and tenacity shown by the Hillsborough families, and to echo Nev's earlier post, I hope it inspires other victims of injustice to keep fighting until they get the answers they deserve. As far as I'm concerned they can't shout loud or long enough.

 


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