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Author Topic: Hillsborough  (Read 45620 times)

Offline glasses

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2016, 01:30:46 PM »
A great day for the families of the victims, can't believe it's taken a lifetime.

One question though, without wishing to antagonise anyone, although clearly the police made all the errors, surely the thing that started that chain of events was far more fans turning up than the number of tickets allocated? Surprised that didn't get mentioned in the summary of the jury's verdict.

It was:

QUESTION 7: Behaviour of the supporters
Posted at
11:14
Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? Yes or no.

No.

Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which may have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? Yes or no.

No.

Another cheer in court.  ‘Thanks’ comes from the public gallery and  sighs of relief are audible.

Offline AVH87

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2016, 01:32:18 PM »
A great day for the families of the victims, can't believe it's taken a lifetime.

One question though, without wishing to antagonise anyone, although clearly the police made all the errors, surely the thing that started that chain of events was far more fans turning up than the number of tickets allocated? Surprised that didn't get mentioned in the summary of the jury's verdict.

It wasn't the number of fans arriving at the ground, it was the fact that they were funnelled through a very small part of the ground. Just look at how the pens either side were relatively empty. And look at footage of Wolves v Spurs at Hillsbrough a few years earlier (81?) where something similar happened

Fair enough. You read that much stuff on news sites/twitter/facebook and forget which is being reported as the truth and which is just opinion, prejudiced or otherwise.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2016, 02:07:49 PM »
A great day for the families of the victims, can't believe it's taken a lifetime.

One question though, without wishing to antagonise anyone, although clearly the police made all the errors, surely the thing that started that chain of events was far more fans turning up than the number of tickets allocated? Surprised that didn't get mentioned in the summary of the jury's verdict.

It wasn't the number of fans arriving at the ground, it was the fact that they were funnelled through a very small part of the ground. Just look at how the pens either side were relatively empty. And look at footage of Wolves v Spurs at Hillsbrough a few years earlier (81?) where something similar happened

Fair enough. You read that much stuff on news sites/twitter/facebook and forget which is being reported as the truth and which is just opinion, prejudiced or otherwise.

There were might have been some with fake tickets or without tickets, but as the video below shows, that was hardly a unique occurrence at big matches back then:




Offline not3bad

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2016, 02:09:27 PM »
I'm tearful too Woofles.
Hopefully The Sun will now publish a front page apology to the fans but I'm not holding my breath.

Whilst The Sun will hopefully get their long overdue comeuppance, surely today should just be about the victims and their families.

Maybe, but apologies may be slow to be forthcoming - today, tomorrow, or ever.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sir-bernard-ingham-who-labelled-7837120

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2016, 02:14:11 PM »
A great day for the families of the victims, can't believe it's taken a lifetime.

One question though, without wishing to antagonise anyone, although clearly the police made all the errors, surely the thing that started that chain of events was far more fans turning up than the number of tickets allocated? Surprised that didn't get mentioned in the summary of the jury's verdict.

It wasn't the number of fans arriving at the ground, it was the fact that they were funnelled through a very small part of the ground. Just look at how the pens either side were relatively empty. And look at footage of Wolves v Spurs at Hillsbrough a few years earlier (81?) where something similar happened

Which resulted in Hillsborough not being used as a semi final venue for years.  When it was used again, there were issues at that end of the ground in the Coventry v Leeds semi final and then in the Liverpool v Forest tie they year before the disaster.  Some Liverpool fans even contacted the club to complain about the conditions on the terrace.

Offline conman

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2016, 02:33:36 PM »


thatcher was part of the cover up too , payback time after  the south yorkshire police  looked after her during the miners strike

Offline Chico Hamilton III

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2016, 02:57:12 PM »
And Boris Johnson has a few questions to answer for his article about Liverpool in 2004

They see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it. Part of this flawed psychological state is that they cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance against the rest of society. The deaths of more than 50 Liverpool football supporters at Hillsborough in 1989 was undeniably a greater tragedy than the single death, however horrible, of Mr Bigley; but that is no excuse for Liverpool's failure to acknowledge, even to this day, the part played in the disaster by drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground that Saturday afternoon. The police became a convenient scapegoat, and the Sun newspaper a whipping-boy for daring, albeit in a tasteless fashion, to hint at the wider causes of the incident
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 03:01:32 PM by Chico Hamilton III »

Online Nev

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2016, 03:12:44 PM »
I doubt that the events of today will change those of a certain mindset, be it establishment figures and their bigoted stereotypes of the "lower orders" or fellow football fans who cannot see beyond their hatred for a rival team.


Offline Hopadop

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2016, 03:41:46 PM »
Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? Yes or no.

No.

Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which may have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? Yes or no.

No.


I don't think anyone with a shred of knowledge about that day has suggested otherwise for years, including Duckenfield in his evidence to Taylor.

Offline Hopadop

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2016, 03:44:29 PM »
The only possible verdict and clearly the right one. Hopefully we will see prosecutions follow.

In future, the next time an idiot tries to blame the victims it will be possible to remind them that a jury of ordinary people having heard all of the evidence in great detail found otherwise.

If you're talking about the unlawful killing verdict I don't agree. I can understand why there was a split over this, and I bet the seven had to think long and hard.

Offline Hopadop

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2016, 03:49:16 PM »
Thank goodness the lies surrounding that dreadful day at Hillsborough are finally being nailed after all this time. I guess it's a case of better late than never, but that's no comfort to the 96 football supporters who lost their lives; or the relatives and friends who are no longer around to see justice being served. May they rest in peace.

Taylor in his first / interim report all those years ago pretty much set out the truth of that day, but it was never really accepted by many of those who could and should have acted on it.

Offline john e

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2016, 04:58:27 PM »
I'm tearful too Woofles.
Hopefully The Sun will now publish a front page apology to the fans but I'm not holding my breath.

Whilst The Sun will hopefully get their long overdue comeuppance, surely today should just be about the victims and their families.

Maybe, but apologies may be slow to be forthcoming - today, tomorrow, or ever.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sir-bernard-ingham-who-labelled-7837120

The Sun made a front page apology back in 2012

Offline simboy

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2016, 05:42:25 PM »
Forgive me, what did WM Police have to do with it?


West Mids carried out the original police enquiry into their colleagues. I think that South Yorks returned the compliment, reviewing the work of the Serious Crime Squad?



Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2016, 05:49:47 PM »


The Sun made a front page apology back in 2012

And then employed Kelvin Mackenzie as a columnist.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2016, 05:51:04 PM »
A great day for the families of the victims, can't believe it's taken a lifetime.

One question though, without wishing to antagonise anyone, although clearly the police made all the errors, surely the thing that started that chain of events was far more fans turning up than the number of tickets allocated? Surprised that didn't get mentioned in the summary of the jury's verdict.

It wasn't the number of fans arriving at the ground, it was the fact that they were funnelled through a very small part of the ground. Just look at how the pens either side were relatively empty. And look at footage of Wolves v Spurs at Hillsbrough a few years earlier (81?) where something similar happened

Fair enough. You read that much stuff on news sites/twitter/facebook and forget which is being reported as the truth and which is just opinion, prejudiced or otherwise.

There were might have been some with fake tickets or without tickets, but as the video below shows, that was hardly a unique occurrence at big matches back then:





At the time the deaths occiured the terrace was generally reckoned to be below capacity.

 


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