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Author Topic: Hillsborough  (Read 47997 times)

Offline Hopadop

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #225 on: June 30, 2017, 11:30:58 AM »
Hopadop- I think you're right that an abuse of process application won't succeed because no Judge would dare grant it. Do you think the previous promise of no jail strengthens the application?

I can't really see how it would Richard - he did nothing to his detriment as a result of the assurance. Assuming Hooper's stay is overturned I'd say it's a clean sheet so far as it goes.

As an aside, it's a bit ironic that the judge in question was Anthony Hooper - he was one of the more humane judges in the court of appeal. It's all relative of course but it's a bit of a shame for him. To be fair, back in 2000 I remember the feeling generally was the private prosecution was a misconceived one.

Hooper thought it was impossible for Duckenfield to get a fair trial in 2000 - that has to go double now given the way the inquest was allowed to go. It should be a cast iron application (even if the original is overturned) but you're right - it would be a very brave judge.

Offline Richard E

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #226 on: July 01, 2017, 08:22:24 AM »
Hopadop- I think you're right that an abuse of process application won't succeed because no Judge would dare grant it. Do you think the previous promise of no jail strengthens the application?

I can't really see how it would Richard - he did nothing to his detriment as a result of the assurance. Assuming Hooper's stay is overturned I'd say it's a clean sheet so far as it goes.

As an aside, it's a bit ironic that the judge in question was Anthony Hooper - he was one of the more humane judges in the court of appeal. It's all relative of course but it's a bit of a shame for him. To be fair, back in 2000 I remember the feeling generally was the private prosecution was a misconceived one.

Hooper thought it was impossible for Duckenfield to get a fair trial in 2000 - that has to go double now given the way the inquest was allowed to go. It should be a cast iron application (even if the original is overturned) but you're right - it would be a very brave judge.

Interesting- thank you.

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #227 on: July 02, 2017, 02:17:05 PM »
Hadn't there been a near-miss at Hillsborough before, or hadn't it failed a safety certificate? I'm sure I remember reading something like that, with the suggestion that the FA were at least party-culpable for the choice of venue.

Yes (Tottenham v Wolves in 1981 as mentioned earlier).
And yes, the safety certificate had run out some years previously, there had been "improvements" to the Lepping Lane terrace between '84 and '89 and no safety certificate had ever been signed off during or after this work(for improvements read more fences including the internal fences making it into pens which prevented the natural spreading of fans across the terrace therefore exacerbating the crush).

My son has just finished his dissertation on Safe Standing and the Hillsborough disaster, the research we did together was revealing and frightening at times.

What were his conclusions Dave?  Genuinely interested in the safe standing debate.

I haven't actually read all of it. I'll get back to you.

Offline The Laughing Policeman

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #228 on: July 02, 2017, 04:48:48 PM »
I'm sorry but I don't see the co-relation between the terraces of yesteryear and modern safe standing.
I remember being in The Holte back in the day when it was rammed and every surge brought the risk of injury and not just at VP, remember West Ham? In those days it wasn't a case of could it happen but when it would happen.
Modern standing has rail standing /seating which makes it impossible for surges to happen and coupled with modern ticketing systems there is no way that we would see a Hillsborough type overcrowding catastrophe happening again.
Safe standing has been in use for years in Germany and other European countries with no reported problems after deep scrutiny by EUFA. And yes it does have an impact on the atmosphere, just watch the Bundesliga on TV or a bit nearer to home ask Celtic fans who had safe standing last year. Even those that don't stand say it improves the atmosphere.

Offline Richard E

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #229 on: April 15, 2018, 08:06:04 AM »
Never forget, never forgive.

RIP and justice for the 96.

Offline Ads

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #230 on: April 15, 2018, 08:54:20 AM »
I can't understand why they've never pulled that away end down.

Offline Damo70

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #231 on: April 15, 2018, 11:08:56 AM »
I can't understand why they've never pulled that away end down.

BFR's first game was my first trip to Hillsborough. It was a strange feeling being in the away end.

Offline wittonwarrior

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #232 on: April 15, 2018, 07:23:46 PM »
What I cannot Get my head round and what is not acceptable is that the leppings lane stand us still potentially an accident waiting to happen nearly 20 years on. Talk about football refusing to wake up

Offline TopDeck113

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #233 on: April 15, 2018, 07:46:09 PM »
Never forget, never forgive.

RIP and justice for the 96.

Indeed.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #234 on: April 15, 2018, 09:06:22 PM »
As always on this day, what everyone else has said. And never, ever buy the Sun.

Offline oldhill_avfc

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #235 on: April 16, 2018, 01:58:32 PM »
What I cannot Get my head round and what is not acceptable is that the leppings lane stand us still potentially an accident waiting to happen nearly 20 years on. Talk about football refusing to wake up

Why do you say that?

Offline Pete3206

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #236 on: April 16, 2018, 08:32:45 PM »
What I cannot Get my head round and what is not acceptable is that the leppings lane stand us still potentially an accident waiting to happen nearly 20 years on. Talk about football refusing to wake up

You got me there. What's up with it?

Online curiousorange

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #237 on: April 16, 2018, 08:45:57 PM »
What I cannot Get my head round and what is not acceptable is that the leppings lane stand us still potentially an accident waiting to happen nearly 20 years on. Talk about football refusing to wake up

You got me there. What's up with it?

I've never been there, but I was led to believe it has the same gate/tunnel complex as in 1989. Maybe that was what wittonwarrior was getting at?

Offline wittonwarrior

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #238 on: April 16, 2018, 09:35:04 PM »
The same tunnel remains in the lower and the exits are extremely narrow upstairs.  I can't honestly believe that he gets a safety certificate.

The whole Hillsborough thing and Sheffield is just not right.  There are those there who still call it the Liverpool disaster.  Even the trams to the ground on match day are rammed.  Talk about not learning from your mistakes.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #239 on: April 16, 2018, 11:14:14 PM »
As always on this day, what everyone else has said. And never, ever buy the Sun.

Applause.

 


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