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Author Topic: Hillsborough  (Read 52975 times)

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #195 on: June 28, 2017, 09:43:02 PM »
I would guess that the FA could argue that they hired the venue expecting it to be safe. Sheffield Wednesday were responsible for the running of the event and therefore any negligence lies with them.

I don't know why you're saying you hate them calling it the Liverpool Disaster. 96 Liverpool supporters died.

Offline Richard E

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #196 on: June 28, 2017, 09:48:53 PM »
See wm police are still being investigated over a possible cover up

To be honest I think it is about time things get wrapped up and people move on. If you lived where I live just outside from Liverpool you would understand my comment. It dominates far to many people's minds  who had no direct involvement

Hill borough was tragic but where does it end.  On the flick people like Bettison appear on the surface to be well let's say not my kind of folk

I do feel sorry for duckinfield in that he appears to have been made a scapegoat. He panicked. His only real mistake in my eyes was trying to cover it up.

If you do want to proportion blame then surely the fa should be included for not checking the grounds safety certificate

Finally despite everything the leppings lane remains the same. Something we all need to take responsibility for

A couple of things here that I have to take issue with.

David Duckenfield's lies were not "his only real mistake". Duckenfield gave the order to open the gates. At the same time he failed to recognise the need to close the central pens. These decisions, his decisions, led directly to the deaths of 96 people. It was a catastrophic error of judgment. Had he done his homework and familiarised himself with the stadium layout he may not have made these terrible decisions. But he did not do that, hence he was unprepared and ill-equipped to deal with the scenario. That was gross negligence.

When he realised his error, he compounded it by claiming that he had not ordered that the gates be opened, and that the fans had stormed them. That was an outright lie.

It really mustn't be forgotten that that lie, and the whole cover-up, started right there, right then, in that stadium while the dead were still dying.  The seeds of conspiracy were being sown by Duckenfield and his employers as early as that.

Duckenfield is no scapegoat, he richly deserves his manslaughter charge, as do the others who stand accused of perjury and whatever else their corruption has been labelled. None of them deserves an ounce of sympathy.

I agree that the FA has got off very lightly here. I'm not sure how or why.

Where does it end? It ends when justice has been done. When those responsible for the tragedy and the conspiracy have been held to account.

Over the last twenty-five years I've heard plenty of calls for the people of Liverpool to move on; let it go, Liverpool, you've made your point, stop wallowing. Thankfully they didn't; the families - with the support of the whole city, including those you'd deem not directly involved - wouldn't let it go, and it's that persistence from that huge number of people that's got them this far.

You can only admire the incredible resilience and tenacity shown by the Hillsborough families, and to echo Nev's earlier post, I hope it inspires other victims of injustice to keep fighting until they get the answers they deserve. As far as I'm concerned they can't shout loud or long enough.

This. Every single word of this.

Offline Damo70

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #197 on: June 28, 2017, 09:52:53 PM »
I would guess that the FA could argue that they hired the venue expecting it to be safe. Sheffield Wednesday were responsible for the running of the event and therefore any negligence lies with them.

I don't know why you're saying you hate them calling it the Liverpool Disaster. 96 Liverpool supporters died.


Would the FA have not had a safety assessment officer check the ground out beforehand? Or would that have been irrelevant if it was down to the lack of competence of Duckenfield and the police in general?

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #198 on: June 28, 2017, 09:56:45 PM »
I would guess that the FA could argue that they hired the venue expecting it to be safe. Sheffield Wednesday were responsible for the running of the event and therefore any negligence lies with them.

I don't know why you're saying you hate them calling it the Liverpool Disaster. 96 Liverpool supporters died.


Would the FA have not had a safety assessment officer check the ground out beforehand? Or would that have been irrelevant if it was down to the lack of competence of Duckenfield and the police in general?

I'm not sure such a post existed then. It was usually a case of what the police says, goes.

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #199 on: June 28, 2017, 10:04:11 PM »
I would guess that the FA could argue that they hired the venue expecting it to be safe. Sheffield Wednesday were responsible for the running of the event and therefore any negligence lies with them.

Actually that sounds quite likely, in which case the CPS may well have felt there was little chance of prosecution.

I suppose it's in light of the fact that there had been previous close calls (including in the semi-final the previous year) that had not been acted upon that made me wonder if the FA might be found culpable in any way.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 10:08:01 PM by Chinchilla Bathhouse »

Offline Richard E

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #200 on: June 28, 2017, 10:13:20 PM »
Sheffield Wednesday always seem to have got a free pass over the disaster, bearing in mind they were the owners of the death trap where this catastrophe happened.

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #201 on: June 28, 2017, 11:10:48 PM »
Hadn't there been a near-miss at Hillsborough before, or hadn't it failed a safety certificate? I'm sure I remember reading something like that, with the suggestion that the FA were at least party-culpable for the choice of venue.

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #202 on: June 28, 2017, 11:28:43 PM »
The Chinchilla has saved me commenting on the judgement, I can't add anything to his excellent post.

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #203 on: June 28, 2017, 11:35:56 PM »
Hadn't there been a near-miss at Hillsborough before, or hadn't it failed a safety certificate? I'm sure I remember reading something like that, with the suggestion that the FA were at least party-culpable for the choice of venue.

Yes (Tottenham v Wolves in 1981 as mentioned earlier).
And yes, the safety certificate had run out some years previously, there had been "improvements" to the Lepping Lane terrace between '84 and '89 and no safety certificate had ever been signed off during or after this work(for improvements read more fences including the internal fences making it into pens which prevented the natural spreading of fans across the terrace therefore exacerbating the crush).

My son has just finished his dissertation on Safe Standing and the Hillsborough disaster, the research we did together was revealing and frightening at times.

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #204 on: June 28, 2017, 11:43:01 PM »
Thanks Dave. On the basis that much of the FA has, traditionally, consisted of ageing white blokes, are many of the people who may have had some say in deciding the venue still alive?

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #205 on: June 29, 2017, 01:50:28 AM »
Well certainly not the Chairman at the time, Bert Millichip, he died in 2002. And you can't really pin anything on Graham Kelly (chief Executive) as he had literally only just taken over from Ted Croker who died in 1992.
 

Offline peter w

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #206 on: June 29, 2017, 03:31:17 AM »
Six charged. Five for perverting the course of justice and/or misconduct in office. Manslaughter charge for Duckenfield. I hope I have reported that right from what I just quickly heard.

Wow. I'm Stateside at the moment so just catching up with this. Never thought it would get this far. Maybe being a fan of that era I still expect the cover ups to see this not get the real justice and punishments it deserves.

Offline sid1964

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #207 on: June 29, 2017, 06:43:29 AM »
I am relieved for the families of this tragedy, that they may hopefully get some justice for there loved ones that perished on that awful day, however I do wonder how the families of the Italians who lost there lives at Heysel must be feeling today, 30 + years on and still no justice for them!

Offline Nev

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #208 on: June 29, 2017, 07:24:46 AM »
I am relieved for the families of this tragedy, that they may hopefully get some justice for there loved ones that perished on that awful day, however I do wonder how the families of the Italians who lost there lives at Heysel must be feeling today, 30 + years on and still no justice for them!

Ding! And here we go again.....

Offline AV82EC

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #209 on: June 29, 2017, 08:16:18 AM »
I am relieved for the families of this tragedy, that they may hopefully get some justice for there loved ones that perished on that awful day, however I do wonder how the families of the Italians who lost there lives at Heysel must be feeling today, 30 + years on and still no justice for them!

<must not bite, must not bite>

I humbly suggest you do some research.

 


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