Former PL club Aston Villa 2-3 Watford - post mortem thread

[andyh]

Richardson was asleep, about 3 yards behind play, playing everyone onside by miles.
It wasn't even close to being close!

[oswald funkletrumpet]

senderos and lescott are not the answer to any question

we need to blood some under 21's now to see if they are up to it ready for next season

Compared to Lescott or Richardson, Senderos is Baresi and Maldini rolled into one.

Lets not right Lescott off just yet

why not? in case he comes good lol

he is fucking shit and an appalling lazy signing

[brontebilly]

senderos and lescott are not the answer to any question

we need to blood some under 21's now to see if they are up to it ready for next season

Compared to Lescott or Richardson, Senderos is Baresi and Maldini rolled into one.

Senderos is another one starting to get better the longer he doesnt play

He was appalling for Fulham during their relegation.

He is probably as slow as Lescott and at least as poor on the ball.

Lets forget about him, would be good to cut him and Lescott in Jan.

[Clampy]

senderos and lescott are not the answer to any question

we need to blood some under 21's now to see if they are up to it ready for next season

Compared to Lescott or Richardson, Senderos is Baresi and Maldini rolled into one.

Senderos is another one starting to get better the longer he doesnt play

He was appalling for Fulham during their relegation.

He is probably as slow as Lescott and at least as poor on the ball.

Lets forget about him, would be good to cut him and Lescott in Jan.

You can get away with being slow at centre half, just as long as you read the game ok, which he did, but which so far Lescott hasn't.

[supertom]

The true Geordies feelings about his club probably echo how must of us feel about the Villa right now.
NSFW

[saunders_heroes]

I have just shown immense bravery and looked at the goals for the first time since I left the ground yesterday.
Fucking hell, it's even worse than watching them at the time.
I said at halftime yesterday that our defending was shocking, with players hacking, and slicing at the ball, and 'attacking' the ball with the wrong foot.
The defending, from the midfielders and the defenders was absolutely appalling, it would be laughable if it was so serious.

There is absolutely no composure in that team anymore.
No one wants to take control, no one can, or is able to LEAD, hence the shambles that we witnessed yesterday.

We do not look like a team. There is no cohesion, no spirit, and absolutley no bloody urgency in the team.
There cannot be another team in the premier league that passes the ball backwards as much as we do.

And, I have just remembered THAT  free kick from Guzan, after about 3 mins.

What the flying fuck was that about!

I think that Guzan has made them all so nervous that they just panick if the ball comes into the area, one of the most frightening sounds in football must be "Brads Ball"

Totally agree about Guzan. Easily the worst keeper in the Premier. 
I think the biggest problem at Villa Park now is Randys lack of interest and involvement. He hasn't been to the ground in 2 years. Says it all really.

The Guzan situation sums up Villa under Lerner in a nutshell. Let go because he simply wasn't good enough, then brought back in when we realised PL standard goalkeepers demanded PL standard transfer fees and wages.
He isn't good enough, never has been and never will be, yet here he is still our number one goalkeeper.

[KevinGage]

Very harsh.

He was fine in 2012/13 - probably a big factor in us staying up.

Looked OK in 2013-14 too.

Ropey from the second half of last season onward though, and can have no complaints if we bring in a replacement.  Which we should have done in the summer, in all honesty.

[Villa in Denmark]

I have just shown immense bravery and looked at the goals for the first time since I left the ground yesterday.
Fucking hell, it's even worse than watching them at the time.
I said at halftime yesterday that our defending was shocking, with players hacking, and slicing at the ball, and 'attacking' the ball with the wrong foot.
The defending, from the midfielders and the defenders was absolutely appalling, it would be laughable if it was so serious.

There is absolutely no composure in that team anymore.
No one wants to take control, no one can, or is able to LEAD, hence the shambles that we witnessed yesterday.

We do not look like a team. There is no cohesion, no spirit, and absolutley no bloody urgency in the team.
There cannot be another team in the premier league that passes the ball backwards as much as we do.

And, I have just remembered THAT  free kick from Guzan, after about 3 mins.

What the flying fuck was that about!

I think that Guzan has made them all so nervous that they just panick if the ball comes into the area, one of the most frightening sounds in football must be "Brads Ball"

Totally agree about Guzan. Easily the worst keeper in the Premier. 
I think the biggest problem at Villa Park now is Randys lack of interest and involvement. He hasn't been to the ground in 2 years. Says it all really.

Well both of Watford's keepers were worse yesterday, and if you haven't seen it yet, look up Gomes' f##k up against Leicester a few weeks ago.

Guzan good enough? No, not really.
The worst in the league? You can make that argument.
Easily the worst? Nope, there's a few that can give him a run for that title.
In addition to the Watford pair and Pantilimon at Sunderland are just as unreliable.

[ROBBO]

Lerner has sole responsibility for this, after MON walked out leaving us with overpaid journeyman stinking the club out

I've never really bought into this bitter and twisted jilted bride mentality many people have against O'Neill.  The day he walked out was the day I knew we were in decline.

I wish we were being 'stunk out' in 6th place every year right now.

I'm with ya Mr W. I guess some folk find it easier to slag off the man who baled - rather than the idiot who displayed apparent commitment & loyalty. 'Funny old game ain't it?

And why did O'Neill walk? Because he had the rug pulled from under his feet by Lerner that's why. The chairman informed him they'd be no more big signings no more big wages and from now on we were to be run on a relative shoestring. O'Neill is no fool and he knew no top club could compete with such penny pinching so he walked. This is why we couldn't and still can't attract decent players or managers since, and this is why the last 5 years have been such a miserable experience.
This is just my opinion before anyone gets their knickers in a twist.

Had O Neill left in May he'd probably still be one of my favourite Villa managers. I don't actually blame him for going but surely these finance discussions were discussed in the tail end of the last season or during close season. To fuck off a week before the start of the season is what really bugged me. Whether the Milner sale (and getting Ireland in return) was the final straw I don't know. But O Neill could have left after the previous season with a lot of good will.

I agree, and I think you're right about Milner being the final straw. If he had walked out at the end of the previous season he probably wouldn't be so unpopular as he is now but I doubt very much if that would have affected our decline. That was set in stone as soon as Lerner decided he couldn't give a flying fuck anymore.

Not being able to sign Robbie Keane and Aiden McGreedy was the final straw.

O'Neill thought he had kept his part of the sell to buy deal by flogging Milner. But the likes of Davies, Reo Coker, Luke Young and Shorey were still on the books.

Plus he already had three wingers on the books in Downing, Ashley Young and Albrighton, so I can actually understand the boards reluctance to throw money at a position we were well stocked in.

He wanted Ireland, according to Ireland himself.

Even if all of what you've said is true, it doesn't address why Lerner suddenly pulled the investment plug & started the massive austerity trip: the 'dividends' of which is our inevitable relegation this season. Did MON leave when he did in order to punish the club after he didn't get his own way, or did he realise what Uncle Randolph's great new plan was after failing (again) to get his paws on the Champions League riches? I know what I think, but I'm open to new & contrary ideas.

Lerner pulled the plug because he realised that he didn't have the buying power anymore and at the same time we had players on huge contracts that were as good as on permant holiday. I am not knocking Lerner for cutting back it's how far and how fast he cut, that and the total lack of understanding of how to run a football club.

[Villa in Denmark]

Spot on ROBBO.

For everyone who thinks Lerner should have just kept pouring money in, which would have presumably involved keeping MON for at least another 2 seasons, how much would have been a reasonable point to say stop?

Bearing in mind the tab is now somewhere between £250 and £300M should he have gone for
£400M?
£500M?
£750M?
a nice round £1 Billion (which is where Abramovich, a man who makes Lerner look like a pauper, pretty much stopped and that was over a longer period than Lerner's been involved.)

[old man villa fan]

Spot on ROBBO.

For everyone who thinks Lerner should have just kept pouring money in, which would have presumably involved keeping MON for at least another 2 seasons, how much would have been a reasonable point to say stop?

Bearing in mind the tab is now somewhere between £250 and £300M should he have gone for
£400M?
£500M?
£750M?
a nice round £1 Billion (which is where Abramovich, a man who makes Lerner look like a pauper, pretty much stopped and that was over a longer period than Lerner's been involved.)

When you look at the losses we have run up in the last few years and you add this to the cut backs, it just shows how much of a financial mess we were in.  Successive managers brought in players on wages that did not reflect what we got out of them on the pitch.  I think the McLeish appointment and him bringing in CNZ, Given and Hutton was the turning point for Lerner and was our watershed.

[auntiesledd]

Lerner has sole responsibility for this, after MON walked out leaving us with overpaid journeyman stinking the club out

I've never really bought into this bitter and twisted jilted bride mentality many people have against O'Neill.  The day he walked out was the day I knew we were in decline.

I wish we were being 'stunk out' in 6th place every year right now.

I'm with ya Mr W. I guess some folk find it easier to slag off the man who baled - rather than the idiot who displayed apparent commitment & loyalty. 'Funny old game ain't it?

And why did O'Neill walk? Because he had the rug pulled from under his feet by Lerner that's why. The chairman informed him they'd be no more big signings no more big wages and from now on we were to be run on a relative shoestring. O'Neill is no fool and he knew no top club could compete with such penny pinching so he walked. This is why we couldn't and still can't attract decent players or managers since, and this is why the last 5 years have been such a miserable experience.
This is just my opinion before anyone gets their knickers in a twist.

Had O Neill left in May he'd probably still be one of my favourite Villa managers. I don't actually blame him for going but surely these finance discussions were discussed in the tail end of the last season or during close season. To fuck off a week before the start of the season is what really bugged me. Whether the Milner sale (and getting Ireland in return) was the final straw I don't know. But O Neill could have left after the previous season with a lot of good will.

I agree, and I think you're right about Milner being the final straw. If he had walked out at the end of the previous season he probably wouldn't be so unpopular as he is now but I doubt very much if that would have affected our decline. That was set in stone as soon as Lerner decided he couldn't give a flying fuck anymore.

Not being able to sign Robbie Keane and Aiden McGreedy was the final straw.

O'Neill thought he had kept his part of the sell to buy deal by flogging Milner. But the likes of Davies, Reo Coker, Luke Young and Shorey were still on the books.

Plus he already had three wingers on the books in Downing, Ashley Young and Albrighton, so I can actually understand the boards reluctance to throw money at a position we were well stocked in.

He wanted Ireland, according to Ireland himself.

Even if all of what you've said is true, it doesn't address why Lerner suddenly pulled the investment plug & started the massive austerity trip: the 'dividends' of which is our inevitable relegation this season. Did MON leave when he did in order to punish the club after he didn't get his own way, or did he realise what Uncle Randolph's great new plan was after failing (again) to get his paws on the Champions League riches? I know what I think, but I'm open to new & contrary ideas.

Lerner pulled the plug because he realised that he didn't have the buying power anymore and at the same time we had players on huge contracts that were as good as on permant holiday. I am not knocking Lerner for cutting back it's how far and how fast he cut, that and the total lack of understanding of how to run a football club.

Thanks Robbo, that's pretty much how I interpreted the begining of our end. What I don't understand is why MON gets the blame by some for being culpable for us being left with players on long contracts when he suddenly upped & left. Admittedly he chose the players in the first place, but presumably it was the CEO arranging the contracts & Lerner effectively rubber-stamping them. The rest, unfortunately, is history: & a certain person still hasn't learnt the lessons - which to most of us seem blindingly obvious.

[tomd2103]

Very harsh.

He was fine in 2012/13 - probably a big factor in us staying up.

Looked OK in 2013-14 too.

Ropey from the second half of last season onward though, and can have no complaints if we bring in a replacement.  Which we should have done in the summer, in all honesty.

I lost count of the number of times yesterday he kicked the ball straight to a Watford player with a Villa player nowhere near.  His kicking is poor.

[ciggiesnbeer]

The true Geordies feelings about his club probably echo how must of us feel about the Villa right now.
NSFW

I know he and many Newcastle fans will enjoy watching us go down but I think he articulated my feelings about supporting Villa very well.

Fairplay to him.

[Hillbilly]

Now that relegation is pretty much confirmed, I might enjoy the rest of the season. It'll come too late but I think Garde will eventually get them into some form and we will win a few game and play with a bit of style.