Aston Villa vs. West Brom Post-Debacle Thread

[villadelph]

Is it too early to say BIG SAM?

I don't know.  The last few years has worn me down so much, I don't even think it is the manager or players any more.  It's the club.  We are like Tommy Lee Jones in No Country For Old Men.  We are an old, tired club in what is now a young man's game.  We've been more or less an irrelevance for the last couple of decades.  We don't have the energy or the will to even try and compete any more.

As for this season, it seems it's all going to rest on Traore, and if he's the real deal, and if he avoids getting another knock.  One month out for getting kicked?  This being the Prem, he might only 5-10 games this season.

Makes my eyes water.

[KRS]

Heard an interesting factlet on the way home - we started with only 3 new players from last year's squad (Richards, Lescott, Amavi), so maybe no huge surprise that we're still heading for a relegation scrap, and worrying that with that squad we beat the Bitters

This is a point I was making on the TS thread...its actually 4 players if you count Sinclair plus 2 subs. With a full strength squad we have options but a few injuries to key players and we are screwed simply because we're carrying players who shouldn't be anywhere near the first team (Bacuna, Hutton, Guzan, Gabby...and arguably Westwood) and some of the new signings are injured (Gueye, Traore), aren't fit/ready (Crespo, Ilori, Veretout) or good enough (Ayew, Gestede). It could be a few months until we start seeing the team he's building with new players actually take to the pitch, but we desperately need a new forward (£15m for Austin seems cheap now regardless of the risk) or we could be in too deep by Christmas. We need 3 or 4 players in the January window.

[mr woo]

I was going to comment on the game but fuck it, I can't be arsed to repeat the same things I ve been saying all season, Bournemouth away included because that is proving to be the fluke I saw it for, so I'm going to generalise instead.


I am petrified of this Sherwood bluster every time we come up against an organised workmanlike side. Hes been out thought time and time and time again. Worryingly,  he ain't shown any signs of learning from his mistakes either. We look devoid of ideas up front and easily rattled at the back, and amazingly, I've only seen one intelligent substitution all season.

It's all a recipe for disaster if you were playing for example a lower  league rival with an intelligent young manager who specialises in smash and grab results.

You have been warned.

[Dave]

I'm surprised at the criticism of Sanchez. In the first half it was basically him and Guzan + nine passengers. We could easily have been four time at half time if not for those two.

Everything was just so telegraphed. It started with Guzan, who passed to Lescott. Lescott passed to Amavi, who passed it back to Lescott. He passed it to Westwood to put wide to Gil. He did a smart shimmy to take it past two of their players and into their half. There was nobody to really pass to, so he'd check back and pass to Sanchez. Sanchez would pass back to Lescott and we'd repeat the above a couple of times.

And at some point Fletcher would just step forward and take the ball off us. It was just like the Lambert times when passing sideways across the midfield wasn't a means to an end, it was both the means AND the end.

As for Bacuna coming on, I wonder if Sherwood saw any of last week's criticism and thought "alright you fuckers, you want an extra midfielder on? Here you go then". I can't really see any other logic behind it.

[Ian.]

That was so much harder to take than last weeks result.
For all the faults from last weeks second half I felt positive because of the first half performance.

Today was awful, just proper shit. Was it a very bad day at the office or have we got a complete chancer of a manager? I can't work it out. We have had a great summer of signings or was that the scouting team? He got us out of real trouble last season but form soon faded and the final was very poor.

We've had some good spells in matches but results are not happening because of the same errors and loss of concentration we've been seeing for years.

I spent the last few years hoping the little glimpses of good in Lamberts term would come good. They didn't.

 I always thought a summer of new signing would need time to gel so I suppose I need to move on from this game and hope to see improvement and some wins sooner rather than later.

[four fornicholl]

fuck me I need cheering up!!!
any ideas

[john e]

what have west ham got that we don't

Confidence.

Brains.

U
Tactics.

Bubbles.

Inter city firm

[BC54 VFC]

fuck me I need cheering up!!!
any ideas

Get a ticket for the rugby at Villa Park next weekend.

[KRS]

For all the criticism that TS is getting for his tactics, part of the problem today is simply that our forward options are completely and utterly shite. The backwards and sideways passing were as a direct result of no movement or runs from the forwards...what are the midfield supposed to do if the forwards just stand their marking their markers?! Even when we got it out to the wings, both Gabby and Gestede were outnumbered and stood their like statues next to their markers without the slightest bit of movement.

Surprised no one has mentioned the penalty claim...looked well inside the box from me, and also the air kick from Gabby after Amavi had skinned their defenders and put in a decent low cross.

[tomd2103]

Have just about calmed down enough to post some thoughts after being at the game earlier.  In short - complete mess.  It was clear last season that Albion struggled against pace, but he persisted with Gil and Grealish out wide.  Both had their moments, but they hadn't really got the pace to expose their full-backs and always looked to cut inside.  I thought Westwood had a poor game, Sanchez was his usual mixed bag and Amavi struggled defensively at times. 

I'm starting to have doubts about Sherwood.  He's making a lot of really strange decisions. 

[villadelph]

fuck me I need cheering up!!!
any ideas

Running a few times around the block today. You could make this squad.

[Dave]

Surprised no one has mentioned the penalty claim...looked well inside the box from me

It was, but he turned his back on the cross and it didn't look like it hit his hand. If we'd been penalised for that I'd have been livid.

[Gareth]

That has to be one of the physically weakest displays I have ever witnessed, barely laid a glove on them.

Can't see how this team is at the stage where it can carry Gil & Grealish from kick off - with them and Westwood / Sinclair there are 4 players whose idea of tackling is to vaguely wave a leg towards the ball, it's such a cowardly way of trying to mask a deficiency.

It seems we have been waiting for 5/6 years for a manager to find the right balance in the centre of midfield....still waiting!  Might be time for 3 centre halves with 3 in the middle and 2 up top?? Sanchez still only has an hour in him, Westwood is neat and tidy - nothing more, nothing less - need Gueye & Gardner fit & Veretout up to speed to give competition in the that area.

As for the forwards, I'd go Kozak & Ayew on Tuesday with Gabby & Sinclair on the bench - Gestede has contributed the square root of eff all since Bournemouth so it's a chance for others to stake a claim.

As for today, Guzan, Hutton, Richards & Amavi did ok - the rest need a long look in the mirror & a proper rollocking!

The chant goes 'f**k em off, get into em' - would suggest a little of the 2nd part wouldn't go amiss!

[Ron Manager]

Today the F word came into play. Flat atmosphere,flat performance and  young Mr Grealish flattered to deceive far too many times. The only two players to take credit for their output today were, in my opinion, Carles Gil who was very accurate in his passing and Carlos Sanchez who had a very good first half. Perhaps Micah Richards as well on reflection.

We didn't look like scoring at any stage of this match. Alan Hutton may get forward well but he cannot deliver a cross. Amavi has gone back from his searing form of the early matches. This being the case I don't see the point of playing Gestede whose main attribute is his heading ability. If they are going to play it short into the box you need a forward who can turn quickly such as Kevin Phillips or Jermain Defoe could in their prime.

The tide is turning against Tim Sherwood. One win in eight (I think) is far from good enough new players or not.

Libor Kozak is our best bet to deliver a goal or two but Sherwood doesn't even have him on the bench.

Not looking at all good is it?

[Rudy65]

For all the criticism that TS is getting for his tactics, part of the problem today is simply that our forward options are completely and utterly shite. The backwards and sideways passing were as a direct result of no movement or runs from the forwards...what are the midfield supposed to do if the forwards just stand their marking their markers?! Even when we got it out to the wings, both Gabby and Gestede were outnumbered and stood their like statues next to their markers without the slightest bit of movement.

You can blame the players for sure,  but you would expect the manager to have a tactical plan as well.

For me one of either Gill or Grealish need to be further forward when they receive the ball. They have too many players to beat and too much to do to be effective