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Author Topic: Idrissa Gueye - now gone  (Read 135123 times)

Online Nev

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1230 on: May 19, 2022, 01:27:13 PM »
There's a very fine line between I don't agree with it, and I don't believe it should be allowed. Those who support Gueye's right to choose are likely to be the very same that want to remove that right from James McClean every autumn.

Offline Smithy

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1231 on: May 19, 2022, 01:33:38 PM »
We accept all peoples religious beliefs normally so why (if this is the assumed reasoning behind his choice) is he not allowed to make that choice?

He has not called anyone out or criticised the activity - he just does not want to support it

We do not "accept all people's religious beliefs". If those beliefs break our laws, we don't accept them.  Discrimination against someone based on their sexuality is against the law here, and also in France.  Though homosexuality itself is still illegal in Senegal.

And for the record, he HAS been allowed to make that choice. But the more liberal-minded in society are also free to criticise him for it.  But whether effectively going on strike when his employer asked him wear a symbol in support of LGBT rights is against the law in France, or not, I have no idea.  I suspect he's broken no laws, but might be charged with something by the football association of France.

It will also cost him in the eyes of the public, which is a threat to his commercial sponsorship deals etc, but as his career is winding down now anyway, I suspect that will be of little concern to him.

Online Dave

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1232 on: May 19, 2022, 01:36:01 PM »
There's a very fine line between I don't agree with it, and I don't believe it should be allowed. Those who support Gueye's right to choose are likely to be the very same that want to remove that right from James McClean every autumn.

I expect that the people who think that footballers should "stay out of politics and just concentrate on the football" probably pop up in that Venn diagram as well.

Offline Smithy

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1233 on: May 19, 2022, 01:37:25 PM »
There's a very fine line between I don't agree with it, and I don't believe it should be allowed. Those who support Gueye's right to choose are likely to be the very same that want to remove that right from James McClean every autumn.

The difference, though subtle, is that the poppy is not the symbol for a group protected by discrimination laws.  Refusing to be associated in any way with the poppy and what it stands for might be abhorrent to some people, but the people supported by the royal legion are not a protected or persecuted group.

Offline Risso

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1234 on: May 19, 2022, 01:43:06 PM »
Exactly that - he can make that choice and face the consequences for that choice. Personally I think he’s a twat.

I agree with Paul, and also think he's a twat.

Online paul_e

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1235 on: May 19, 2022, 01:59:06 PM »
Exactly that - he can make that choice and face the consequences for that choice. Personally I think he’s a twat.

I agree with Paul, and also think he's a twat.

Yep, sums it up nicely.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1236 on: May 19, 2022, 02:04:58 PM »
I want to be careful how I word this, so to start off I will say I am a supporter of the rainbow campaign and Villa and Proud.  I thought the rainbow laces campaign was brilliant and bought a few pairs myself.  I also have a Villa and Proud badge which I was happy to wear to games (before I misplaced it)

With that established, my initial reaction was that it was really poor by Gueye.  But we have to be careful here, all he has chosen to do is to not wear something.  So far as I am aware he has not made any descriminatatory statements or taken any descriminatatory actions.  The whole point of the rainbow campaign (and the kneeling etc) is to raise awareness and show support for the causes in question.  The fact that there are those of us who postively want to do this is surely what it is all about?  If it then becomes an enforced uniform or gesture, then in my view it loses some of that impact. 

So whilst we can all read between the lines here, the truth is all he has chosen to do is not support something.  I wouldn't be particularly happy if it was a Villa player, but equally I think we should be cautious about demanding that punishments are dished out etc.  People must be allowed to have their own thoughts and opinions so long as they don't overstep a line and encourage hate.  I don't think what Gueye has done here (or not done) crosses that line.  Now if he goes beyond this and starts making homophobic statements etc, then that woud be a different matter entirely.   

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1237 on: May 19, 2022, 02:13:13 PM »
For me you are either supportive or you’re against gay rights. There’s no middle ground, and again he absolutely has a choice. He’s exercised that choice and I personally think he’s a twat for the stance he’s taken.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1238 on: May 19, 2022, 02:23:16 PM »
I want to be careful how I word this, so to start off I will say I am a supporter of the rainbow campaign and Villa and Proud.  I thought the rainbow laces campaign was brilliant and bought a few pairs myself.  I also have a Villa and Proud badge which I was happy to wear to games (before I misplaced it)

With that established, my initial reaction was that it was really poor by Gueye.  But we have to be careful here, all he has chosen to do is to not wear something.  So far as I am aware he has not made any descriminatatory statements or taken any descriminatatory actions.  The whole point of the rainbow campaign (and the kneeling etc) is to raise awareness and show support for the causes in question.  The fact that there are those of us who postively want to do this is surely what it is all about?  If it then becomes an enforced uniform or gesture, then in my view it loses some of that impact. 

So whilst we can all read between the lines here, the truth is all he has chosen to do is not support something.  I wouldn't be particularly happy if it was a Villa player, but equally I think we should be cautious about demanding that punishments are dished out etc.  People must be allowed to have their own thoughts and opinions so long as they don't overstep a line and encourage hate.  I don't think what Gueye has done here (or not done) crosses that line.  Now if he goes beyond this and starts making homophobic statements etc, then that woud be a different matter entirely.   

Nobody's suggested that he should be punished, have they? Unless, by refusing to play, he's in breach of contract or something (in which case, that's on him). I don't think he should be punished, but I feel free to form an opinion. That he's being a dick.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1239 on: May 19, 2022, 02:26:38 PM »
I think some people have, if not here then elsewhere.  Your opinion of him is of course fair enough SE.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1240 on: May 19, 2022, 02:35:47 PM »
For me you are either supportive or you’re against gay rights. There’s no middle ground, and again he absolutely has a choice. He’s exercised that choice and I personally think he’s a twat for the stance he’s taken.

Spot on, Paul. The same goes for racism. There’s no middle ground unless you're a twat, obviously.

Online paul_e

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1241 on: May 19, 2022, 02:37:57 PM »
I want to be careful how I word this, so to start off I will say I am a supporter of the rainbow campaign and Villa and Proud.  I thought the rainbow laces campaign was brilliant and bought a few pairs myself.  I also have a Villa and Proud badge which I was happy to wear to games (before I misplaced it)

With that established, my initial reaction was that it was really poor by Gueye.  But we have to be careful here, all he has chosen to do is to not wear something.  So far as I am aware he has not made any descriminatatory statements or taken any descriminatatory actions.  The whole point of the rainbow campaign (and the kneeling etc) is to raise awareness and show support for the causes in question.  The fact that there are those of us who postively want to do this is surely what it is all about?  If it then becomes an enforced uniform or gesture, then in my view it loses some of that impact. 

So whilst we can all read between the lines here, the truth is all he has chosen to do is not support something.  I wouldn't be particularly happy if it was a Villa player, but equally I think we should be cautious about demanding that punishments are dished out etc.  People must be allowed to have their own thoughts and opinions so long as they don't overstep a line and encourage hate.  I don't think what Gueye has done here (or not done) crosses that line.  Now if he goes beyond this and starts making homophobic statements etc, then that woud be a different matter entirely.   

That over simplifies it though, if it was choosing not to attend an optional event organised by the club then that would be one thing but by refusing to play what he's actually done is refuse to do his job.

I don't think the law or french football authorities can or should do anything but I'd be surprised if PSG aren't very annoyed with him.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1242 on: May 19, 2022, 03:31:17 PM »
I want to be careful how I word this, so to start off I will say I am a supporter of the rainbow campaign and Villa and Proud.  I thought the rainbow laces campaign was brilliant and bought a few pairs myself.  I also have a Villa and Proud badge which I was happy to wear to games (before I misplaced it)

With that established, my initial reaction was that it was really poor by Gueye.  But we have to be careful here, all he has chosen to do is to not wear something.  So far as I am aware he has not made any descriminatatory statements or taken any descriminatatory actions.  The whole point of the rainbow campaign (and the kneeling etc) is to raise awareness and show support for the causes in question.  The fact that there are those of us who postively want to do this is surely what it is all about?  If it then becomes an enforced uniform or gesture, then in my view it loses some of that impact. 

So whilst we can all read between the lines here, the truth is all he has chosen to do is not support something.  I wouldn't be particularly happy if it was a Villa player, but equally I think we should be cautious about demanding that punishments are dished out etc.  People must be allowed to have their own thoughts and opinions so long as they don't overstep a line and encourage hate.  I don't think what Gueye has done here (or not done) crosses that line.  Now if he goes beyond this and starts making homophobic statements etc, then that woud be a different matter entirely.   

My thoughts and point exactly - he has done nothing wrong

No one criticised Zaha for standing alone on Saturday when every other player took they knee.

I think he is a twat of a man but i would not have a go at him for not doing it as that is his right and no one else should have a go at him either

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1243 on: May 19, 2022, 03:33:06 PM »
For me you are either supportive or you’re against gay rights. There’s no middle ground, and again he absolutely has a choice. He’s exercised that choice and I personally think he’s a twat for the stance he’s taken.

Spot on, Paul. The same goes for racism. There’s no middle ground unless you're a twat, obviously.

Wow that shows up how modern society has become so polarised - and some could say that is why there is so much hate now on both sides of any argument.

"If you do not agree with me then YOU are wrong"

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Idrissa Gueye - now gone
« Reply #1244 on: May 19, 2022, 03:44:19 PM »
Pretty transparently true in RCF's two examples.

 


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