It's not Sherwood!

[Dave]

I am far from convinced by Sherwood myself, I said it when he got the job, and I am still feeling that way now, but although the manager might be the same, so much has changed in the time between then and now that the entire "we've been shit for 10 (or whatever) games now" approach is meaningless.

Well yes, I'd agree with that.

But recognising that similar mistakes are being made both at the back of last season and at the beginning of this season is perfectly valid.

[Steve67]

Individual errors yesterday. Amavi has been great but made a poor decision, Sherwood's fault? Taking Sanchez off, yes. We still don't look fit enough. And we are desperate for a natural goal getter.

[Olof's Beard]

Wrong thread - Idiot

[Chris Smith]

I am far from convinced by Sherwood myself, I said it when he got the job, and I am still feeling that way now, but although the manager might be the same, so much has changed in the time between then and now that the entire "we've been shit for 10 (or whatever) games now" approach is meaningless.

Well yes, I'd agree with that.

But recognising that similar mistakes are being made both at the back of last season and at the beginning of this season is perfectly valid.

It might be valid but totally meaningless. Last season was entirely about convincing a poor side that they were capable of more. It worked in that we achieved what we needed to do to stay up and we had the cup run as a little bonus.

This time it is all about rebuilding. Not only replacing the under performers but also arguably our three best players. The majority of sides take a few weeks to get going at the start of the season, look at the current champions for instance. For us you have to factor in the huge turnover in players with the majority of the signings being new to the country.

It is going to be a few months for a team to emerge from the collection of individuals and it will only be then that the concerns about Sherwood can be assessed.

[Big Dick Edwards]

Individual errors yesterday. Amavi has been great but made a poor decision, Sherwood's fault? Taking Sanchez off, yes. We still don't look fit enough. And we are desperate for a natural goal getter.

While I thought taking Sanchez off was a strange decision, it was at least a positive move and his substitute was instrumental in our goal. I'd have taken Gabby off personally.

[olaftab]

Individual errors yesterday. Amavi has been great but made a poor decision, Sherwood's fault? Taking Sanchez off, yes. We still don't look fit enough. And we are desperate for a natural goal getter.

That is Sherwood's fault.

[brian green]

Natural goal getters come in the region of £32.4 million.

[Risso]

I am far from convinced by Sherwood myself, I said it when he got the job, and I am still feeling that way now, but although the manager might be the same, so much has changed in the time between then and now that the entire "we've been shit for 10 (or whatever) games now" approach is meaningless.

Well yes, I'd agree with that.

But recognising that similar mistakes are being made both at the back of last season and at the beginning of this season is perfectly valid.

It might be valid but totally meaningless. Last season was entirely about convincing a poor side that they were capable of more. It worked in that we achieved what we needed to do to stay up and we had the cup run as a little bonus.

This time it is all about rebuilding. Not only replacing the under performers but also arguably our three best players. The majority of sides take a few weeks to get going at the start of the season, look at the current champions for instance. For us you have to factor in the huge turnover in players with the majority of the signings being new to the country.

It is going to be a few months for a team to emerge from the collection of individuals and it will only be then that the concerns about Sherwood can be assessed.

I agree with that Chris.  I do have a few nagging doubts though, such as his continual selection of Gabby.

[brian green]

I am very much in the He's okay We are going to be okay camp. However I do hope he does not develop the same muleish stubborn streak of our two previous managers. Successful, winning managers have to be quick witted. There is no time for self indulgent point proving.

[olaftab]

Natural goal getters come in the region of £32.4 million.

Recently we bought one for 7 million!

[Monty]

I am far from convinced by Sherwood myself, I said it when he got the job, and I am still feeling that way now, but although the manager might be the same, so much has changed in the time between then and now that the entire "we've been shit for 10 (or whatever) games now" approach is meaningless.

Well yes, I'd agree with that.

But recognising that similar mistakes are being made both at the back of last season and at the beginning of this season is perfectly valid.

It might be valid but totally meaningless. Last season was entirely about convincing a poor side that they were capable of more. It worked in that we achieved what we needed to do to stay up and we had the cup run as a little bonus.

This time it is all about rebuilding. Not only replacing the under performers but also arguably our three best players. The majority of sides take a few weeks to get going at the start of the season, look at the current champions for instance. For us you have to factor in the huge turnover in players with the majority of the signings being new to the country.

It is going to be a few months for a team to emerge from the collection of individuals and it will only be then that the concerns about Sherwood can be assessed.

I think the criticism depends on the type of mistake being made. It would be unfair to say, for instance, that Amavi messing up yesterday means we're still making the same mistakes as when we had Luna. That would be nonsensical.

However, Sherwood does have a tendency to let games drift a bit and not be proactive enough with his substitutions. That's got nothing to do with new signings, old players, individuals bedding in, what have you - that's just an issue he has. It's not a crippling fault so far, not least because Plan A frequently works well for him, but it is an emerging pattern.

[Rudy65]

I like the way we can really ramp up the whinging by extending this season into last.

Why not when you are analysing the managers performance?

We have been poor for the last 6 games. I would love to know how many chances we have created during that time. I suspect very few because we have only scored twice.

[thick_mike]

To be fair...the main objective (staying in the Prem) was all but achieved before the last two league games of last season. We saw a team that had been galvanised and worked hard breathe a sigh of relief and start planning their summer holidays. You can't start including those results when assessing Tim's performance as a manager.

When Tim took over I was under no illusions...we were certainly going to be relegated and humiliated twice in a week vs West Brom on live TV. What he achieved with a group of demoralised players was little short of a miracle.

Tim makes mistakes, he said so himself when he took over...he would rather someone made a mistake trying to do something rather than hiding and doing nothing. Continually picking Gabby may seem like he is doing nothing...I don't know, but maybe he's trying to keep a consistent factor in the team so that the new players can coalesce around it? I didn't see the game yesterday, but it sounds like that backfired on him badly.

Anyway, in short:

Tim worked miracles last season
A couple of small mistakes have caused us to lose two points over the last two games
By the end of today we will still be above West Brom or Chelsea or both! :-)

[Dave]

To be fair...the main objective (staying in the Prem) was all but achieved before the last two league games of last season. We saw a team that had been galvanised and worked hard breathe a sigh of relief and start planning their summer holidays. You can't start including those results when assessing Tim's performance as a manager.

At the final whistle of the Southampton match (with one match to go) we were still in danger of going down.

If we went into that game breathing a sigh of relief and planning our summer holidays (with the not-insignificant matter of the FA Cup Final a couple of weeks later) then that would be pretty poor from both the players and management.

[thick_mike]

To be fair...the main objective (staying in the Prem) was all but achieved before the last two league games of last season. We saw a team that had been galvanised and worked hard breathe a sigh of relief and start planning their summer holidays. You can't start including those results when assessing Tim's performance as a manager.

At the final whistle of the Southampton match (with one match to go) we were still in danger of going down.

If we went into that game breathing a sigh of relief and planning our summer holidays (with the not-insignificant matter of the FA Cup Final a couple of weeks later) then that would be pretty poor from both the players and management.

I agree, and I was bricking it before the Southampton game...but it was very unlikely that we would go down by that point (even though as a villa fan I am the eternal pessimist)...that's why I said "all but achieved".

The FA Cup Final was a massive kick in the gonads however and I don't include that game. I don't think we'll ever win it in the 30 or so years I hope I have left.