We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...

[pauliewalnuts]

Sometimes it's all about symbolics. Glenn Roeder was always going to get peoples backs up. Maybe that's what they wanted.
Are we seeing another attempt now with Keane !

It was only symbolic to those people who are susceptible to hysteria. Most people saw it for what it was.

Also worth remembering that 95% of Villa fans won't have even known he was here.

[pauliewalnuts]

Not sure you can compare ONeills spending with previous managers, for one inflation and secondly the fees/wages in the premier league era are way ahead than those previously spent.

Unsurprisingly this rather relevant point has been ignored.

Not really.

I dont think many other clubs were busy making Heskey their 65k a week top earner on a 3.5 year deal, aged 32 and a bit. Or giving a 31 year old Habib Beye a three year, 40k a week deal. Or buying one whole defence one summer, and then another whole defence the next summer. Or buying players like Nicky Shorey, seeing them in training, then opting never to use him.

[silhillvilla]

Guess the only other era we had some serious wedge (at the time) was when we had that windfall of cash under Ellis , can't recall which sponsor pumped it in ?

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Houiller gave the impression that he was disconnected from the club in the sense that he didn't get it. The reality was that he was in the same boat as O'Leary and O'Neill in that respect, but the difference was, old Ged would be at BMH until 3am with Gary Mac watching DVD's of matches after a game and working on how to improve.

We should have followed him with continuity. We saw how he wanted to play with Young central, Downing wide and with players like Makoun and Bradley. Ok, they may have not worked out (I didn't think Bradley was given a chance and did well for Roma) but it was clear that we had a plan. Beyond an overarching strategic aim to reduce expenditure, there has been nothing on a smaller tactical level since.

I also agree with Lee that Houiller would have cut the corrosive element from the club a lot sooner in the likes of Warnock, Dunne and Collins and players of their character. At the least we would have not had the schism in the dressing room between those that had embraced Ged's ideas and those that were clearly against it. Performances like Liverpool, Wolves and Man City may not have reoccurred in a second season, who knows. We may have seen more performances like Man United at home, when a midfield of Hogg and Herd brought us pretty darn close to beating them for the first time since Morning Glory was in the charts.

I am not sure what it was that had scared Lerner and why he reverted to a type in McLeish, that has been followed by Lambert, rather than continuing down the path we were on.

[pauliewalnuts]

Performances like Liverpool, Wolves and Man City may not have reoccurred in a second season, who knows. We may have seen more performances like Man United at home, when a midfield of Hogg and Herd brought us pretty darn close to beating them for the first time since Morning Glory was in the chart

Bannan and Hogg, but totally agree, i came out of that game disappointed we didn't win, but really positive about where we were going.

[Villan For Life]

Guess the only other era we had some serious wedge (at the time) was when we had that windfall of cash under Ellis , can't recall which sponsor pumped it in ?

NTL

[silhillvilla]

Guess the only other era we had some serious wedge (at the time) was when we had that windfall of cash under Ellis , can't recall which sponsor pumped it in ?

NTL

Yep that's them .

[passitsideways]

Performances like Liverpool, Wolves and Man City may not have reoccurred in a second season, who knows. We may have seen more performances like Man United at home, when a midfield of Hogg and Herd brought us pretty darn close to beating them for the first time since Morning Glory was in the chart

Bannan and Hogg, but totally agree, i came out of that game disappointed we didn't win, but really positive about where we were going.

Then I'm pretty sure in the return game at OT Makoun ran the show in midfield and we lost only because our defence was still quite shit and Vidic scored a goal which most centre halves would have no business scoring

[supertom]

Not getting a natural successor to Houllier was a huge mistake. He'd planted seeds for something that by now could have seen the club flourishing again. Once he'd put Bent up top he had the man at the fulcrum to find the space and put away the chances Young etc were creating, that previously Gabby and Heskey weren't really putting away. We looked good once we had Bent.
His summer transfer plans could have helped us too, and I think he'd have better replaced Young and Downing.

McLeish came in as Randolph felt we needed someone more like O Neill (deemed more successful obviously in a blinkered view, whilst Ged was clearly more progressive). He comes in, makes a few O Neill type signings, drags our football back into the dark ages and the rest is history.

Lambert comes in. We experiment with the young, cheap and hungry experiment. It's frankly a disaster. Lambert is also in the O Neill mould. Outdated, stubborn and unable to learn from and rectify his mistakes. This season his transfer policy was very O Neill-esque.

[LeeB]

Performances like Liverpool, Wolves and Man City may not have reoccurred in a second season, who knows. We may have seen more performances like Man United at home, when a midfield of Hogg and Herd brought us pretty darn close to beating them for the first time since Morning Glory was in the chart

Bannan and Hogg, but totally agree, i came out of that game disappointed we didn't win, but really positive about where we were going.

That was the thing, I remember quite a few games we drew or lost that we should have won.

I can barely think of any over the last few seasons.

[edgysatsuma89]

Sometimes it's all about symbolics. Glenn Roeder was always going to get peoples backs up. Maybe that's what they wanted.
Are we seeing another attempt now with Keane !

It was only symbolic to those people who are susceptible to hysteria. Most people saw it for what it was.

Also worth remembering that 95% of Villa fans won't have even known he was here.

I shamefully had no idea.

Is it too late for me to be pissed off?

[silhillvilla]

No, please vent.

Back to the manager and post GED, there's a strong case that says we should have kept Gary McAllister in the chair with GED is some sort of remote consultation role as a continuity plan.

[dave.woodhall]

No, please vent.

Back to the manager and post GED, there's a strong case that says we should have kept Gary McAllister in the chair with GED is some sort of remote consultation role as a continuity plan.

Except McAllister was a crap manager and Ged didn't want to be in the background.

[mr underhill]

except that we showed some good form when G-Mac was manager and finished an improbable 9th

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You're forgetting the tactical masterstroke of Gary Mac at the Shrine. He decided to vacate our midfield when they were down to 10 men which saw us lose for the first time there since dinosaurs roamed the earth.

 Even crap Villa managers like O'Leary, McLiesh and Lambert don't get beat at the Shrine by the Stripey Filth.