Aston Villa vs Everton Post-Match Thread

[Richard E]

What are the chances of Richard Dunne scoring the winner for us next week? It'll be something like the 11th own goal of his career

Knowing our luck he'll score for them.

[supertom]

What are the chances of Richard Dunne scoring the winner for us next week? It'll be something like the 11th own goal of his career

It's possibly our most likely avenue. Our lack of chances and goals is getting to a stage that we need a gift, or something scrappy, or one off someone's arse. We don't look like scoring at the moment. And even during our good run, we didn't look like getting more than 1-2.

[Richard E]

What are the chances of Richard Dunne scoring the winner for us next week? It'll be something like the 11th own goal of his career

It's possibly our most likely avenue. Our lack of chances and goals is getting to a stage that we need a gift, or something scrappy, or one off someone's arse. We don't look like scoring at the moment. And even during our good run, we didn't look like getting more than 1-2.

I hope Mr Lambert doesn't read this thread or the game plan will be to pump lots of high balls towards Dunne.

[django]

Can Grealish be better than we have? Worth trying him to find out. Not too much of a gamble if we're honest.

I'm a bit worried that, if it goes tits up next week at QPR and the fans turn on the team/manager/owner/ unbalanced, bearded lunatic coach...) that it will do Grealish's confidence no good. Very negative of me, I know.

Oh yeah sure we could permanently ruin the career of one of the brightest prospects we've had in years and send us on a doomed to relegation spiral, but apart from that...nothing to lose.

[frank]

What are the chances of Richard Dunne scoring the winner for us next week? It'll be something like the 11th own goal of his career

There was a nice little statistic doing the rounds a year or so ago.
Q Which PL player still playing has scored most goals against Liverpool?
A  Jamie Carragher

[peter w]

The clubs that really suffer in the premier league are those like us who have traditions of winning stuff from time to time but now find themselves priced out of competing or playing in the champions league.

You have the top four or five, then the teams just glad to be here - Hull, Swansea, Burnley, there are lots of these, then the likes of us, who in the past have been competitive but now find things like winning the league unthinkable.

Dare I mention the Everton example again.  It is true what you say, but it is possible to at least be competitive if you are well run club with a decent manager.  There are absolutely no excuses for us to be happy with 4th from bottom every year.  I think people would settle these days with what Chris is referring to above if it could be seen we were having a right good go at teams in the process, something we almost never do anymore.

This myth about just being well-run should be put to bed. they have also been spending money.

It's not much of a myth when for the previous 5 years they've made a profit each year on transfers for a total of almost exactly what they spent this summer.

No, they're gambling with debt.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jan/03/everton-wage-bill-turnover-accounts

http://statsbomb.com/2013/09/the-curious-cost-of-the-everton-loans/

At the end of last season wages to turnover proportion was 73%. Now you could argue that Everton are being very savvy and managing their debt well. But signing Barry and Eto'o is pushing it and for what? Will Lukako shoot them into the top 4? They aren't going to get CL football but stay where they are. they aren't particularly good either just a decent team. They could easily finish 8th or 9th as 5th and then what? How sustainable will that 73% be. To be fair, their debt is only, 'only', around 45m which with the money flowing into the club is serviceable.  But, they're not making a play for anything and that to me is not a well run club as they need to rely on high transfer fees to keep the debt where it is. Who would they get that for? Lukako? Well he's already cost them a high figure. Baines? How much have they put him to fend off Man U last season? Who else? They're biding time and are reliant on the loan system, debt, and the odd decent transfer fee to stay where they are. Their luck will run out.

[b23]

The chaos and shambles runs deep and only a change of ownership can save us. In truth, we really should have been relegated under McLeish three years ago and last season under Lambert. They were the worst two Villa sides I've seen since 1987 and, before that, possibly 1967, certainly in the top flight. In a properly functioning business the people who have presided over this calamity would have been thrown to the wolves and replaced long ago. A mixture of indecision, cluelessness, complacency and arrogance has got us to where we are today and the buck must stop with Randy Lerner, now some five years past his sell by date.

If he can't/wkon't sell then we'll be a Championship club within two years.

I have to say, I agree.

It feels like we've been dodging relegation the last few years as Wigan did, and that - like Wigan - we're ultimately going to fail, and go down.

Absolutely spot on as I said on the live match thread yesterday the club has the same feel as when I first started going in the Vic Crowe era. An absolute car crash that everyone who cares about the club can see but no one who runs it seems capable of doing anything about.

Perhaps we need the shock of relegation for anything to change .

In my opiniin the club needs overhauling from top to bottom but to do that we need an owner with vision and a manager with ability, neither of which we possess at the moment,

I think Vic Crowe did a good job as manager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Crowe.

Its fair to say Villa were rubbish before he turned up ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aston_Villa_F.C._managers

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

Can't really compare Grealish to Barkley.
The former is a rather slight, inexperienced, young lad (same build as G Best?) with great potential; the latter, albeit only 20, a proven Prem midfielder who plays for his country and is a big, dynamic athlete with considerable physical presence - not many other players will hustle him off the ball. Jack is still very lightweight physically and will benefit from more games against defenders who will always try to knock him off the ball as he only looks like a stick!

I'd start him against QPR. We need something...anything!

[supertom]

The clubs that really suffer in the premier league are those like us who have traditions of winning stuff from time to time but now find themselves priced out of competing or playing in the champions league.

You have the top four or five, then the teams just glad to be here - Hull, Swansea, Burnley, there are lots of these, then the likes of us, who in the past have been competitive but now find things like winning the league unthinkable.

Dare I mention the Everton example again.  It is true what you say, but it is possible to at least be competitive if you are well run club with a decent manager.  There are absolutely no excuses for us to be happy with 4th from bottom every year.  I think people would settle these days with what Chris is referring to above if it could be seen we were having a right good go at teams in the process, something we almost never do anymore.

This myth about just being well-run should be put to bed. they have also been spending money.

It's not much of a myth when for the previous 5 years they've made a profit each year on transfers for a total of almost exactly what they spent this summer.

No, they're gambling with debt.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jan/03/everton-wage-bill-turnover-accounts

http://statsbomb.com/2013/09/the-curious-cost-of-the-everton-loans/

At the end of last season wages to turnover proportion was 73%. Now you could argue that Everton are being very savvy and managing their debt well. But signing Barry and Eto'o is pushing it and for what? Will Lukako shoot them into the top 4? They aren't going to get CL football but stay where they are. they aren't particularly good either just a decent team. They could easily finish 8th or 9th as 5th and then what? How sustainable will that 73% be. To be fair, their debt is only, 'only', around 45m which with the money flowing into the club is serviceable.  But, they're not making a play for anything and that to me is not a well run club as they need to rely on high transfer fees to keep the debt where it is. Who would they get that for? Lukako? Well he's already cost them a high figure. Baines? How much have they put him to fend off Man U last season? Who else? They're biding time and are reliant on the loan system, debt, and the odd decent transfer fee to stay where they are. Their luck will run out.

I dunno, Everton will always cover their costs and have sellable assets. They then just raise a new crop of sellable prospects and go again. That is, of course if they're staying close to Moyes model. Obviously Martinez has come in and brought in a few high profile players. For Everton they've been quite adventurous in the last couple of years in terms of signings, particularly this summer, bringing Barry, Eto'o and Lukaku in for big money (wages and in Lukaku's case, fee).

It'll be interesting to see if they redress the balance as they have a tendency to do, or possibly descend into an O Neill-esque abyss of over-spending.
I think Baines will get sold in the summer and I suspect if Barkley has a good season they'll be getting silly offers. I think they'll be fine ultimately.
Sometimes you have to walk that tightrope to stay competitive. We tried crossing it on a unicycle and fell off. Now we're dangling in our harness over the croc-pit with no idea how to get back on the rope, or the platform.

[martin o`who??]

"Where were you when you were shit?".

i am working on the assumption - perhaps incorrectly, that this comment was aimed at me for my previous post, well, as a fifty-something, i HAVE been there when we were shit, 3rd division - check, 2nd division - check, relegations/promotions - seen `em all. battle hardened/time served, yep!, fact is, it`s not our crap form over several seasons that has done for me, it`s the overwhelming feeling of being taken for granted by a sport that is losing touch with previously hard-core fans like me. when clubs sign the most lucrative television deal in the sports history and still insist on putting up ticket prices that are already some of the most expensive in the world - that is just pure greed, but where does this money go, back into the game?? - dont make me laugh, it goes to ever greedier players and agents who are bleeding the game dry and dont care if they do. ask yourself why Germany can charge a fraction of what "The most exiting league in the world" lol does, to watch a game, has some of the best stadia in the world, but can still produce a national side that can win a world cup while our national side is a national disgrace. Make no mistake, i love the club, but i`ve had it with the game in it`s present format, and as long as people pay up unflinchingly, nothing will change.

[Ads]

The TV deals were still massive between 2006-10, as were the wages, as were the cost of tickets.

[martin o`who??]

The TV deals were still massive between 2006-10, as were the wages, as were the cost of tickets.

Yes, and the drip-drip effect is leading to an increasing number of fans like me walking away, like i said, treat me like a customer and i`ll begin to act like one, the game takes us for granted at its peril. read Robbie Savages article on the BBCs website for a very enlightening insight into what we are really worth to your average (in his case, very) Premiership Footballer.

[Ads]

Why didn't you walk away between 06-10?

[saunders_heroes]

Why didn't you walk away between 06-10?

He's probably had the stuffing knocked out of him over the last 5 or so seasons by Lerner's 'couldn't care less" attitude to the club. I know it has done me. I gave up my season ticket after at least 3 decades of putting my money up front but I won't be doing it anymore till either he sells up or wakes up before he relegates us.
I admire your support for the club but perhaps as you get older you get more cynical about things. I saw the through Lerner's "young and hungry" bullshit from day one and knew it was nothing but him lowering our expectations and downgrading the club. I've said this many times but this is the worst era I've ever experienced as a Villa fan and I'm not surprised that so many fans have become so disillusioned with it all.

[martin o`who??]

Why didn't you walk away between 06-10?

Aah!, i see where your going with this line of question, what you REALLY mean is "why didnt you take this line when the club was doing well"??, fair question, deserves an answer, and the answer is simple, its not the club or results that are dictating my change of heart, its the whole nature of the game in this country, the final straw for me was Englands pathetic showing at the last world cup, dont forget these lot were the "pride of the Premiership" no less, and a product of a flawed system that is just obsessed with its domestic league and everything else can go to hell, English football is now just dominated by Foreign players, most of whom, we`ve never heard of, who are just using the Premier league to get to the promised land of La Liga. it was a source of immense pride to many of us when England fielded 5 Villa players in a game - albeit after substitutions, it still happened. It will not happen again any time soon. I am what marketing analysts (which i have no doubt, both the club and The Premier League employ extensively) call "Churn" - in other words - they dont care if they lose my custom, because another one will just replace me, The game is changing, i kind of liked it the way it was, but what i do know, i`m just a fan.