Rugby Union (was 2014-15, now an ongoing thread)

[paul_e]

The important thing is our tries and good moments were all where our centres had very little involvement.

The thing that frustrates me with Barritt in particular (he's not even close to international standard) is that he either runs straight into his man with no attempt to suggest he's thinking of doing anything else, or he passes so early his defender has more than enough to adjust and target the winger.

You can sum the 2nd of those up perfectly in the highlights of the 3rd try (3:04 in the video):

What does he expect Watson to do there?  It's only because Watson is very clued up and very strong that he manages to get to ground and avoid the turnover, which leads to the try.


For an example of him running dead straight with no thought of doing anything else I'd need full game highlights but it was pretty clearly what he intended to do in the buildup for the 1st try and thankfully Farrell gave it back to Ford instead.


I don't mind Farrell, he's a great kicker from the tee, he's a decent tackler (but not great) and he works hard but his kicking from hand is unimaginative and inconsistent, his running game is mediocre and his game management is nothing like as good as people seem to think.  A lot of people see him as a new Johnny Wilkinson but that's completely misunderstanding what made Wilkinson a great player.

[aev]

I think a lot depends upon what you want to see from a no.10?

Game management is obviously a given, but for me I want to see someone who can get the best of the backs outside him. Farrell is not in the best of form (and is also still young) but Ford offers a different threat for those lining up against him. Defensively he is probably more suspect, and his goal kicking may not be up to Farrell's standards but with ball in hand he is a better runner and more creative.

[PaulWinch again]

My major frustration is that I really thought we'd moved past Barritt as an England player. There is no way on earth he should be in the side in front of Burrell and that was shown with our improvement in the 6 nations.

[paul_e]

watch the first 2 tries here -
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Burrell and Dickson aren't good enough to get in ahead of Wigglesworth and Barritt, really?

[Dave Summers]

Same 23 for the weekend. Been immensely frustrating to be at Twickenham the last 3 Saturday's and feel that after the improvements of the Six Nations we have regressed somewhat. Two biggest differences for me are the lack of quick ball from the rucks and the total lack of turnovers. This means our backs are getting slow ball and when we do get it, we kick it away far too much and then don't get it back.

Utterly staggering that with the likes of Eastmond, Burrell, Slade available we are picking two centres from Farrell, Barritt and Twelvetrees. Lancaster really has a blind spot in our centre department. Gives Eastmond a run with deepest lying fly half ever & then gives Ford a run with the said fly half relocating to a deep lying centre. Why not pick the two who play together every week and send Faz back to Sarries?

Anyway, off once again with hope we can turn it around and get back on track. If we keep it tight our forwards ought to ensure victory. Would like a bit of style, led by Ford though.

As a footnote, Slammin Sam May make debut for Bath on Friday. Exciting prospect!!!!!!!

[paul_e]

I don't get it, how can he possibly keep faith with Farrell and Barritt after 3 weeks of utter bilge, it's bordering on incompetence now.

[PaulWinch again]

It seems whatever team I support in any sport that the management have massive blindspots. In the 6 nations we made real progress with Burrell in the centre and I thought we'd moved beyond Barritt. I'm absolutely gutted that we'll have him in the centre again. I like Lancaster, but this autumn has been a massive mistake. I really hope he sees sense come the 6 nations.

[PaulWinch again]

What is starting to frustrate is stuff like, 'this 23 did really well last week so we've decided to give them another chance' and 'Eastmond had a chance in the first couple of games and now we're going to give someone else a chance'. Now taking away whether I consider the 23 selected did well last week; surely we're at a stage now where it's about looking at the best players. It's not about giving chances anymore or being fair to those that did well the previous week. We should be getting our best side out there week in and week out.

[paul_e]

What is starting to frustrate is stuff like, 'this 23 did really well last week so we've decided to give them another chance' and 'Eastmond had a chance in the first couple of games and now we're going to give someone else a chance'. Now taking away whether I consider the 23 selected did well last week; surely we're at a stage now where it's about looking at the best players. It's not about giving chances anymore or being fair to those that did well the previous week. We should be getting our best side out there week in and week out.

I have 2 problems with the idea of giving people a chance as he's suggesting here:

1. Right now Luther Burrell is the best fit centre in English rugby, it's less than a year until the world cup and we have 8 games (I think) left after this weekend, Burrell has 6 caps, I'd like most of the squad for the world cup to have 10-15 caps as a minimum so is he going to play virtually every game from here on in or are you going to decide to leave him out and pick Barritt because Barritt has 'international experience'.

2. If giving people a chance and expanding the pool of potential players is your goal why the fuck has Robshaw played 80minutes in pretty much every game for the last 3 years other than the tour of argentina where he wasn't fit?  Matt Kvesic is the only alternative who's been given any time and that was 2 tests in what was largely England reserves vs Argentina reserves.  It can't be 1 rule for you favourites and another for the rest.

[PaulWinch again]

I agree, there is very much the feeling that there are only certain players who can be rested. I think the selection of Barritt is a legacy of the NZ tour and Lancaster has become a bit gun shy. If you look at the 6 Nations he had completely moved away from Barritt and was using Burrell, Twelvetrees and Tuilagi. Burrell had a great time and looked impressive. Suddenly after a tough tour of NZ he's gone back to safety first with Barritt in the side. I really hope he sits down after this series and realises he's making mistakes now.

[PaulWinch again]

Farrell has been dropped finally. Hopefully they'll realise that Barritt is not international standard as well.

[PaulWinch again]

So Bath have been training with Burgess at 12, but apparently he 'gets bored out there' and tries to get involved with the rucks. Not sure that sounds particularly good.

[paul_e]

So Bath have been training with Burgess at 12, but apparently he 'gets bored out there' and tries to get involved with the rucks. Not sure that sounds particularly good.

Move him to 13 and play an expansive game and he'll be fine.  BOD was the same as a kid and he became the best rucking back in world rugby and won shit loads of turnover ball for Leinster and Ireland.  I'm not worried about backs wanting to join in with the forwards and win the ball so long as they learn that there's a time and a place.  That's why I've said all along that I don't think Burgess will be ready to go to the world cup but that he'll be something special for 2019.

As for the team, it's the best we can do with the 23 he'd picked so I'm less annoyed that I could've been but I still can't see any justification for Wigglesworth and Barritt being ahead of 2-3 other players in their positions.  3 players from the best side in the country in the 23 shows that it's not about form.

[PaulWinch again]

So Bath have been training with Burgess at 12, but apparently he 'gets bored out there' and tries to get involved with the rucks. Not sure that sounds particularly good.

Move him to 13 and play an expansive game and he'll be fine.  BOD was the same as a kid and he became the best rucking back in world rugby and won shit loads of turnover ball for Leinster and Ireland.  I'm not worried about backs wanting to join in with the forwards and win the ball so long as they learn that there's a time and a place.  That's why I've said all along that I don't think Burgess will be ready to go to the world cup but that he'll be something special for 2019.

As for the team, it's the best we can do with the 23 he'd picked so I'm less annoyed that I could've been but I still can't see any justification for Wigglesworth and Barritt being ahead of 2-3 other players in their positions.  3 players from the best side in the country in the 23 shows that it's not about form.

My fear is they're going to push for Burgess to be in the back row, which I really don't want.

As regards the team I'm the same. I'm not as disappointed as a could have been, but Barritt still being involved annoys me.

[paul_e]

Probably an hour or so away from Burgess making his debut, nice timing that it's live on BTsport, this could be a really interesting evening.