The Takeover Thread - Recon Group - NOW WITH NEW POLL

[Nastylee]

My take looking in from the outside and not necessarily having the time to study every post like some do:
When acquiring a club a new company is set up. Lerner did it with RAiL and these companies conduct business on behalf of the club. Now, to me it's seems Recon is such a company and is probably new. As a result, a lot of restructuring is taking place. The other 4 companies obviously have the owner's interests but have not yet become officially part of Recon. t seems they will in due course. The media are making a big thing of it because it's a story when in fact all clubs are scrutinised at this stage of a takeover. Think back to RA at Chelsea, the media have dug up all sorts of negative stories over the years about his conduct and links with the dark arts in Russia, it's what the papers do. No one knows the make up of the deal nor will we really ever find out. In actual fact it's questionable whether we actually have the right to know. Do customers normally get to find out dealings of companies they use? Also, no one on this site has the first clue about acquiring football clubs yet some carry on like they are financial consultants. Just chill and see what happens in the next few weeks. It's been shit for years so I figure that it can't get much worse and change is the only way forward. 

[Ron Manager]

This blind trust in Hollis doing substantial due diligence on the purchaser is not something I have great faith in. Ultimately he was employed by Randy to sell the club and get some money in, his position will possibly change under new ownership. Surely his job was to find a buyer who had cash to pay for the club and negotiate the best price possible. Whether Recon Group have loads of cash for future investment or not, is surely not his primary concern as long as they can cough up the £60/£70mill. I suspect he did enough due diligence to confirm that but beyond that?

You may well be right Lovejoy. But beyond that it does not bode well for the club, the club's staff, Bodymoor Heath, and the long suffering supporters once Zia and his Group have got full control of the club does it?

Why's that?

Well Recon Group may have a different agenda to the one we would like them to have. Dont you think it is right we question anything that appears to be not strictly the truth before we are taken over?

[Clampy]

This blind trust in Hollis doing substantial due diligence on the purchaser is not something I have great faith in. Ultimately he was employed by Randy to sell the club and get some money in, his position will possibly change under new ownership. Surely his job was to find a buyer who had cash to pay for the club and negotiate the best price possible. Whether Recon Group have loads of cash for future investment or not, is surely not his primary concern as long as they can cough up the £60/£70mill. I suspect he did enough due diligence to confirm that but beyond that?

You may well be right Lovejoy. But beyond that it does not bode well for the club, the club's staff, Bodymoor Heath, and the long suffering supporters once Zia and his Group have got full control of the club does it?

Why's that?

Well Recon Group may have a different agenda to the one we would like them to have. Dont you think it is right we question anything that appears to be not strictly the truth before we are taken over?

Of course, but worrying about what they're going to do the staff, bodymoor heath etc is just over the top panicking.

[ozzjim]

The whole thing looks like the man that built his house upon the sand. We should pull out and go back to the other 5 bidders and see what their plans are instead.  This guy may have grand plans but there is nothing to suggest he had ever done anything more than embellish his self worth.

[Nastylee]

This blind trust in Hollis doing substantial due diligence on the purchaser is not something I have great faith in. Ultimately he was employed by Randy to sell the club and get some money in, his position will possibly change under new ownership. Surely his job was to find a buyer who had cash to pay for the club and negotiate the best price possible. Whether Recon Group have loads of cash for future investment or not, is surely not his primary concern as long as they can cough up the £60/£70mill. I suspect he did enough due diligence to confirm that but beyond that?

You may well be right Lovejoy. But beyond that it does not bode well for the club, the club's staff, Bodymoor Heath, and the long suffering supporters once Zia and his Group have got full control of the club does it?

Why's that?

Well Recon Group may have a different agenda to the one we would like them to have. Dont you think it is right we question anything that appears to be not strictly the truth before we are taken over?

Of course, but worrying about what they're going to do the staff, bodymoor heath etc is just over the top panicking.

And worrying about Doris the tea lady who has worked with the club for 200 years is exactly the small minded mentality we accused Doug of. If the staff need streamlining then that  would fit in with what most companies are doing these days.

[Nastylee]

The whole thing looks like the man that built his house upon the sand. We should pull out and go back to the other 5 bidders and see what their plans are instead.  This guy may have grand plans but there is nothing to suggest he had ever done anything more than embellish his self worth.

Do you not think the other bidders have not had the chance to share plans yet?

[AV89]

Given that we were fooled for years by the Lerner/Krulak/Fox spin, it's natural to be cautious about any new invested.   Especially when there is so much mystery.

[Taylor]

My take looking in from the outside and not necessarily having the time to study every post like some do:
When acquiring a club a new company is set up. Lerner did it with RAiL and these companies conduct business on behalf of the club. Now, to me it's seems Recon is such a company and is probably new. As a result, a lot of restructuring is taking place. The other 4 companies obviously have the owner's interests but have not yet become officially part of Recon. t seems they will in due course. The media are making a big thing of it because it's a story when in fact all clubs are scrutinised at this stage of a takeover. Think back to RA at Chelsea, the media have dug up all sorts of negative stories over the years about his conduct and links with the dark arts in Russia, it's what the papers do. No one knows the make up of the deal nor will we really ever find out. In actual fact it's questionable whether we actually have the right to know. Do customers normally get to find out dealings of companies they use? Also, no one on this site has the first clue about acquiring football clubs yet some carry on like they are financial consultants. Just chill and see what happens in the next few weeks. It's been shit for years so I figure that it can't get much worse and change is the only way forward. 

This is exactly my take. I don't understand high finance but it seems to me that most premiership clubs are owned by similar business men to Mr Xia, and a few of them allegedly gained their wealth using suspect methods, so if the league excepts that he isn't one then I'll be happy. If they do then I will worry about Holis's ability to find a suitable buyer.

[tomd2103]

My take looking in from the outside and not necessarily having the time to study every post like some do:
When acquiring a club a new company is set up. Lerner did it with RAiL and these companies conduct business on behalf of the club. Now, to me it's seems Recon is such a company and is probably new. As a result, a lot of restructuring is taking place. The other 4 companies obviously have the owner's interests but have not yet become officially part of Recon. t seems they will in due course. The media are making a big thing of it because it's a story when in fact all clubs are scrutinised at this stage of a takeover. Think back to RA at Chelsea, the media have dug up all sorts of negative stories over the years about his conduct and links with the dark arts in Russia, it's what the papers do. No one knows the make up of the deal nor will we really ever find out. In actual fact it's questionable whether we actually have the right to know. Do customers normally get to find out dealings of companies they use? Also, no one on this site has the first clue about acquiring football clubs yet some carry on like they are financial consultants. Just chill and see what happens in the next few weeks. It's been shit for years so I figure that it can't get much worse and change is the only way forward.

I don't know, it could get a lot worse.  Just ask Portsmouth, Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday fans. 

[sideshow]

It is in Lerner / Hollis' best interests to sell us to someone with the right intentions and the right money.
Lerner stands to almost double his money if we are promoted, he will want to know that there is a good chance of that happening and that the new man has the money to pay up. And for all we know there are further success related clauses.
My only concern is that the success isn't achieved by bank loans etc.
Personally though, I think Xia / Recon is probably a front for Chinese government who can't be seen to be buying a football club, and that's why the trail on the money is so vague.

[Chris Smith]

Given that we were fooled for years by the Lerner/Krulak/Fox spin, it's natural to be cautious about any new invested.   Especially when there is so much mystery.

Absolutely, however being cautious should not automatically equate to assuming there is something dodgy. It has only been a few days since this broke and much of the speculation is based on dodgy translations and assumptions. It is only natural that we try to join up the dots but my guess is that it will only be if and when the deal is ratified that we will start to get some flesh on the bones.

[brian green]

Questions

We had become so bad by May 2016,  do you think with Xia as owner and RDM as manager we would be as bad as we were

With Lerner as the owner and McLeish as the manager?

With Lerner as the owner and Lambert as the manager?

With Lerner as the owner and Sherwood as the manager?

With Lerner as the owner and Garde as the manager?

With Lerner as the owner and Black as the manager?

Probably not because by Black our performances had us League 1 bound.

All the hair tearing and garment rending about the new owner simply hands sticks to the Villa haters to beat us with.  We should calm down at see what the man does before we condemn him out of hand.

[LeeS]

It is in Lerner / Hollis' best interests to sell us to someone with the right intentions and the right money.
Lerner stands to almost double his money if we are promoted, he will want to know that there is a good chance of that happening and that the new man has the money to pay up. And for all we know there are further success related clauses.
My only concern is that the success isn't achieved by bank loans etc.
Personally though, I think Xia / Recon is probably a front for Chinese government who can't be seen to be buying a football club, and that's why the trail on the money is so vague.

Lerner could have doubled his money by keeping us and investing the 40m himself, getting promoted and then selling us.

[Dave]

If there were 3 bidders and this shyster was the best of the bunch who the fuck were the other two the Cosa Nostra and isis

What makes you think he's a shyster?  We're currently being run by a guy who was very high up at one of the biggest auditing companies in the world.  Do you honestly think that Hollis wouldn't spot the sort of obvious 'iffy' things that have been reported on here?

The issue is that we're struggling to find info so some people are filling the info black hole with comparisons to Carson Yeung and getting all nervous because of it.  I'm quite uncomfortable with some of it which seems to be that he's going to be shit purely because he's Chinese and operates like most Chinese businessmen.

I sell used vehicles for a living, I can spot a 'wrong un' a mile of
I doubt he will even pass the FA's fit and proper test

There's no reason at all that he wouldn't pass it.

Unless you or your company have gone bankrupt, you've got a significant criminal conviction, you've been disbarred from a professional body or you're being officially investigated then you're going to pass.

Dave said yesterday there is no reason he will fail as long as he meets basic requirements

As long as Dave says it's okay I'm fine with it...

I've not said it's okay, I've said that the concerns that are being voiced on here aren't things that the FA reject potential owners for.

[boozey182]

There must be a chance that this is all above board. That the 'controlling share in five companies' thing is true and it's just a case of shuffling them all under the Recon umbrella  (which they say will be announced soon) and the bird's nest thing was a misunderstanding on Hollis' part as Dr X had a hand in the Olympic Forest (I think) and maybe this was confused for the Bird's Nest. A silly mistake, but an innocent one.

I guess my take on it is that we, as fans, are absolutely at the mercy of the people making this deal. There is literally nothing we can do. So, with this in mind, I'll play the naive/optimistic card and just imagine everything is going to be okay. I might even sneak in a few daydreams of us being promoted by February so the rest of the season is one long victory parade. When the alternative is scouring the Internet for Chinese financial documents that I won't understand, predicting that this is the worst thing that's ever happened, it feels like the only option that will keep me sane.

But I fully understand people''s concern. This could be awful. Until we know for sure, though, I'll whistle a happy tune. I've seen enough to depress me in real life this season, I don't need to start creating any more.