The Takeover Thread - Recon Group - NOW WITH NEW POLL

[ADVILLAFAN]

As we are all seemingly in rant mode can I concur with the annoyance of using such terms as 'The Mighty Reds YNWA', Manure, Arse, Spuds, Chavski and many many more.

You said arse! *snigger*

How about Thieverpool, Man Urinal, Ass-ernal, Spurzzz and Racist Horrible W*nkers then?  :-)

[Risso]

I don't think Lerner even pretends to live in the UK does he, so technically he isn't a non dom as such, as he lives and pays tax in the US.

The post Paulie is quoting is nonsense I'm afraid.  You can't compare Villa to a multi-national like Google or Starbucks.  We don't buy coffee beans in one country, roast them somwhere else, and then have transfer pricing arrangements between various jurisdictions.  We play football in the UK, receive our income in the UK from fans, Sky TV via the PL and various commercial partners.  There's nothing complicated about it, all that's happened is that since Lerner took over, we've pretty well always spent more than we've earned, hence the losses.  There's no artificial shifting of profits in or out, as there aren't any foreign entities who have anything to do with the trade.  We're held by a Delaware company but I imagine that's just because that's where most US businessmen incorporate their holding companies.

You don't need to unravel Lerner's affairs to understand the Aston Villa accounts, because they're very straight forward indeed.  And we did indeed spend way too much under O'Neill.  Whether you apportion the blame for that to O'Neill, Lerner, or a combination of the two is up to you, but the fact is we overspent hugely on players who didn't get us into the top 4, eg Cuellar, Shorey, Heskey, Sidwell, NRC, Harewood, Warnock and Beye.

.

You were doing quite well until you mentioned we are held by a Delaware company.

What the heck has that got to do with your original point that published accounts could be taken with a pinch of salt or that Randy can shift his tax liabilities around the world, and that that's masking the fact that Randy has secretly made money from the TV deals?

For what it's worth, I'm very aware of the tax advantages of places like Delaware and other low tax jurisdictions, as I've lived and worked in one for the last ten years.  The fundamental point that seems to be escaping you is that people use low tax jurisdictions to shift profits from one place to another, so that they can be taxed at a lower rate (eg Starbucks and the Netherlands etc).  It really is very simple though, in that Aston Villa has made huge combined losses and no profit over the last 6 years, and that fact is an easily verifiable fact, and in fact if you read H&V every year at the end of February you'll see that the review of the previous May's audited accounts is one of the annual highlights that everybody on here looks forward to very much indeed (right, guys?  Guys?)  There is consequently no profits that need shifting anywhere else.  Randy may be able to utilise that loss elsewhere in his empire, but that's not the same as him secretly making money out of Villa.

Our income is very easy to understand, it's our share of the TV money (which is published every year), our commercial income, and our gate receipts.  Even if you choose not to believe PwC's audit report, you can get to the income figure very easily.  The TV money is published by the Premier League, our gate receipts can be roughly calculated by taking average gates and multiplying by average ticket price, and our commercial income is roughly known from various announcements.  Then you take off all our costs, of which the majority is wages, and that gives us our loss.

Given the very many expensive mistakes we've made in the transfer market and the utter madness of the bomb squad, why is it difficult to believe that we've made a loss?  We've hardly received a transfer fee worth the name since we flogged Downing, with players that cost millions (eg Warnock, Dunne, Bent etc) all leaving for nothing, and players on huge contracts (Given, Bent, N'Zogbia) all contributing next to nothing.  Honestly, get yourself a set of the accounts from Companies House, and if there's anything you don't understand, let me know and I'll very happily explain it to you.

[The Laughing Policeman]

Now that the release clause has been triggered, I predict a ricochet induced avalanche resulting in leveraged bids in the quadrillion range. Hold on to yer holsters.

I didn't realise Randy had a release clause in his contract. Is it worth more than Benteke's? If so I'd say get rid and get a better owner in.

[Percy McCarthy]

I'd just like to say that I, for one, always look forward to Risso's summary of the accounts.

[AV82EC]

I don't think Lerner even pretends to live in the UK does he, so technically he isn't a non dom as such, as he lives and pays tax in the US.

The post Paulie is quoting is nonsense I'm afraid.  You can't compare Villa to a multi-national like Google or Starbucks.  We don't buy coffee beans in one country, roast them somwhere else, and then have transfer pricing arrangements between various jurisdictions.  We play football in the UK, receive our income in the UK from fans, Sky TV via the PL and various commercial partners.  There's nothing complicated about it, all that's happened is that since Lerner took over, we've pretty well always spent more than we've earned, hence the losses.  There's no artificial shifting of profits in or out, as there aren't any foreign entities who have anything to do with the trade.  We're held by a Delaware company but I imagine that's just because that's where most US businessmen incorporate their holding companies.

You don't need to unravel Lerner's affairs to understand the Aston Villa accounts, because they're very straight forward indeed.  And we did indeed spend way too much under O'Neill.  Whether you apportion the blame for that to O'Neill, Lerner, or a combination of the two is up to you, but the fact is we overspent hugely on players who didn't get us into the top 4, eg Cuellar, Shorey, Heskey, Sidwell, NRC, Harewood, Warnock and Beye.

.

You were doing quite well until you mentioned we are held by a Delaware company.

What the heck has that got to do with your original point that published accounts could be taken with a pinch of salt or that Randy can shift his tax liabilities around the world, and that that's masking the fact that Randy has secretly made money from the TV deals?

For what it's worth, I'm very aware of the tax advantages of places like Delaware and other low tax jurisdictions, as I've lived and worked in one for the last ten years.  The fundamental point that seems to be escaping you is that people use low tax jurisdictions to shift profits from one place to another, so that they can be taxed at a lower rate (eg Starbucks and the Netherlands etc).  It really is very simple though, in that Aston Villa has made huge combined losses and no profit over the last 6 years, and that fact is an easily verifiable fact, and in fact if you read H&V every year at the end of February you'll see that the review of the previous May's audited accounts is one of the annual highlights that everybody on here looks forward to very much indeed (right, guys?  Guys?)  There is consequently no profits that need shifting anywhere else.  Randy may be able to utilise that loss elsewhere in his empire, but that's not the same as him secretly making money out of Villa.

Our income is very easy to understand, it's our share of the TV money (which is published every year), our commercial income, and our gate receipts.  Even if you choose not to believe PwC's audit report, you can get to the income figure very easily.  The TV money is published by the Premier League, our gate receipts can be roughly calculated by taking average gates and multiplying by average ticket price, and our commercial income is roughly known from various announcements.  Then you take off all our costs, of which the majority is wages, and that gives us our loss.

Given the very many expensive mistakes we've made in the transfer market and the utter madness of the bomb squad, why is it difficult to believe that we've made a loss?  We've hardly received a transfer fee worth the name since we flogged Downing, with players that cost millions (eg Warnock, Dunne, Bent etc) all leaving for nothing, and players on huge contracts (Given, Bent, N'Zogbia) all contributing next to nothing.  Honestly, get yourself a set of the accounts from Companies House, and if there's anything you don't understand, let me know and I'll very happily explain it to you.

Stands, applauds, doffs cap.

[Small Rodent]

Honestly, I feel sorry for anyone who thinks Randy is in any way making money out of Villa. And the reason i feel that way is because you'd have to satisfy one of the following criteria to think that way: be absolutely fucking nuts / be blind to evidence / too stupid for words to actually think that way.

They probably don't believe in the moon landings either.

[LeeB]

Honestly, I feel sorry for anyone who thinks Randy is in any way making money out of Villa. And the reason i feel that way is because you'd have to satisfy one of the following criteria to think that way: be absolutely fucking nuts / be blind to evidence / too stupid for words to actually think that way.

They probably don't believe in the moon landings either.

Oh come on, does anyone still believe that? Those jets used to control the landing would have melted the cheese for a start.

[Ads]

If Liverpool have activated the release clause and Man United instead bid £40 million, do you think Randy will send the difference through his Delaware holding company?

[edgysatsuma89]

If Liverpool have activated the release clause and Man United instead bid £40 million, do you think Randy will send the difference through his Delaware holding company?

I like it.

[Richard E]

If Liverpool have activated the release clause and Man United instead bid £40 million, do you think Randy will send the difference through his Delaware holding company?

Can't Villa outbid Liverpool using their £32.5 million and a few quid of Randy's and keep Benteke?

Or match their bid, activate the release clause and then re-sign him by paying £32.5 million to themselves?

[Ads]

If Liverpool have activated the release clause and Man United instead bid £40 million, do you think Randy will send the difference through his Delaware holding company?

Can't Villa outbid Liverpool using their £32.5 million and a few quid of Randy's and keep Benteke?

Or match their bid, activate the release clause and then re-sign him by paying £32.5 million to themselves?

I like your second suggestion. You don't have to be a football club to own a third party registration, if you're not registered in the UK.

RAL bids £32.5 million and offers him a million per week, with no loyalty bonus. Aston Villa Football Club Ltd then offer £1 to buy him back.

Muhahahaha!

[Risso]

If Liverpool have activated the release clause and Man United instead bid £40 million, do you think Randy will send the difference through his Delaware holding company?

Can't Villa outbid Liverpool using their £32.5 million and a few quid of Randy's and keep Benteke?

Or match their bid, activate the release clause and then re-sign him by paying £32.5 million to themselves?

I like your second suggestion. You don't have to be a football club to own a third party registration, if you're not registered in the UK.

RAL bids £32.5 million and offers him a million per week, with no loyalty bonus. Aston Villa Football Club Ltd then offer £1 to buy him back.

Muhahahaha!

Would you like a job?

[Ads]

If Liverpool have activated the release clause and Man United instead bid £40 million, do you think Randy will send the difference through his Delaware holding company?

Can't Villa outbid Liverpool using their £32.5 million and a few quid of Randy's and keep Benteke?

Or match their bid, activate the release clause and then re-sign him by paying £32.5 million to themselves?

I like your second suggestion. You don't have to be a football club to own a third party registration, if you're not registered in the UK.

RAL bids £32.5 million and offers him a million per week, with no loyalty bonus. Aston Villa Football Club Ltd then offer £1 to buy him back.

Muhahahaha!

Would you like a job?

It depends, what are the prospects for skulduggery?

[Comrade Blitz]

So Randy could trouser all the money before he buggers off.

US Customs Official: "Mr. Lerner, have you got GBP32.5m stuffed down your trousers or are you just happy to be home?"

#TrouserTrout

[Risso]

If Liverpool have activated the release clause and Man United instead bid £40 million, do you think Randy will send the difference through his Delaware holding company?

Can't Villa outbid Liverpool using their £32.5 million and a few quid of Randy's and keep Benteke?

Or match their bid, activate the release clause and then re-sign him by paying £32.5 million to themselves?

I like your second suggestion. You don't have to be a football club to own a third party registration, if you're not registered in the UK.

RAL bids £32.5 million and offers him a million per week, with no loyalty bonus. Aston Villa Football Club Ltd then offer £1 to buy him back.

Muhahahaha!

Would you like a job?

It depends, what are the prospects for skulduggery?

Fair to middling.....