Back off Andi!

[Isa]

Works hard, gives his all but doesn't score even close to enough (ditto Gabby)

Work rate at the expense of actual ability, the Paul Lambert ethos:

"They have got everything that you love in footballers - the pace, power, speed, work-rate. That's what you look for in players."

[Monty]

Works hard, gives his all but doesn't score even close to enough (ditto Gabby)

Work rate at the expense of actual ability, the Paul Lambert ethos:

"They have got everything that you love in footballers - the pace, power, speed, work-rate. That's what you look for in players."

Good God what a horrible quote. What on earth was Randy thinking? Didn't this just sound horrible familiar?

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The best footballers in the world all have pace, power, speed and a great work ethic. What is the problem?

[Monty]

Well work-ethic is a given, and pace and speed are the same thing. But Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Fabregas, Coutinho, Pirlo, Gotze, Kroos aren't that quick and have no real 'power', while Messi, Mueller, Reus, Pedro, Suarez, Aguero, Neymar, Robben, Ribery are all quick enough - some of them very - but aren't exactly what you'd call powerful. Yaya Toure, Ronaldo, Bale, Schweinsteiger, Javi Martinez are all quick and powerful, sure, and it certainly helps them in how they play, but the real thing which makes them top players, which they have in common with all the others, is that they can kick a ball pretty well. Lambert appears to have overlooked this aspect, and sounds really MONish in that 'physicality above quality' soundbite there.

[Isa]

The best footballers in the world all have pace, power, speed and a great work ethic. What is the problem?

The best players in the world aren't the best due to physical attributes though, rather technical ones. To prioritise the former is truely retrograde and such a mindset belongs in the 90's.

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I would say the thing that makes Messi a cut above the likes of Ronaldo is that his work ethic is another level above and he has enough physical presence to get lumps kicked out of him, yet he stays on his feet. He is a remarkable player. Lambert not listing every quality that makes a player as wonderful as Messi does not mean he eschews those qualities.

I find criticisng him on the implication that his list is exhaustive and not a quick response to a benign question to be on shaky ground.

There are plenty of things to criticse Lambert on this season outrage of excellent qualities in footballers is not one.

In respect of the list of players you have mentioned, they're all lightening quick between the ears.

[Monty]

I would say the thing that makes Messi a cut above the likes of Ronaldo is that his work ethic is another level above and he has enough physical presence to get lumps kicked out of him, yet he stays on his feet. He is a remarkable player. Lambert not listing every quality that makes a player as wonderful as Messi does not mean he eschews those qualities.

I find criticisng him on the implication that his list is exhaustive and not a quick response to a benign question to be on shaky ground.

There are plenty of things to criticse Lambert on this season outrage of excellent qualities in footballers is not one.

In respect of the list of players you have mentioned, they're all lightening quick between the ears.

I actually think that the off-the-top-of-the-head nature of the comments rather reveals his instincts. Certainly his tactics reflect this sort of mentality.

You're certainly right on the work-rate point, however, and I would add that a sense of team-ethic also puts Messi above Ronaldo. When Messi wins the Balon d'Or, he smiles and says thank you. When Ronaldo won it, he cried like an actress. That's the difference.

And you're certainly right about the footballing brain. Whether its the reaction time of dribblers like Neymar or the ability to see the whole game instantly like a picture in your head, like Xavi or Pirlo, or a sense of position and knowing where to be at which point, like Aguero or Javi Martinez, all the best players have something unimaginably fast going on in their brains.

[Ads]

The best footballers in the world all have pace, power, speed and a great work ethic. What is the problem?

The best players in the world aren't the best due to physical attributes though, rather technical ones. To prioritise the former is truely retrograde and such a mindset belongs in the 90's.

I fail to see how they're mutually exclusive. You play and do what your body is capable of. If Messi struggled with the powerful effects of gravity as Busquets does for example, then he wouldn't be as good as he is. The fact that he can take an absolute kicking and stay on his feet would equally not matter a jot if his control of the ball didn't border on the supernatural. If Messi was not as quick as he is, then he wouldn't have developed into the player he is. He may have been a deep lying midfielder orchestrating matters like Pirlo, he may not have been given a chance at all, who knows.

[Chris Smith]

Well work-ethic is a given, and pace and speed are the same thing. But Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Fabregas, Coutinho, Pirlo, Gotze, Kroos aren't that quick and have no real 'power', while Messi, Mueller, Reus, Pedro, Suarez, Aguero, Neymar, Robben, Ribery are all quick enough - some of them very - but aren't exactly what you'd call powerful. Yaya Toure, Ronaldo, Bale, Schweinsteiger, Javi Martinez are all quick and powerful, sure, and it certainly helps them in how they play, but the real thing which makes them top players, which they have in common with all the others, is that they can kick a ball pretty well. Lambert appears to have overlooked this aspect, and sounds really MONish in that 'physicality above quality' soundbite there.

I think the penultimate word in your post is the telling one. It is a few words from which you have spun a whole theory. Are players like Delph, Westwood and Bacuna selected for their physicality?

[Monty]

Well work-ethic is a given, and pace and speed are the same thing. But Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Fabregas, Coutinho, Pirlo, Gotze, Kroos aren't that quick and have no real 'power', while Messi, Mueller, Reus, Pedro, Suarez, Aguero, Neymar, Robben, Ribery are all quick enough - some of them very - but aren't exactly what you'd call powerful. Yaya Toure, Ronaldo, Bale, Schweinsteiger, Javi Martinez are all quick and powerful, sure, and it certainly helps them in how they play, but the real thing which makes them top players, which they have in common with all the others, is that they can kick a ball pretty well. Lambert appears to have overlooked this aspect, and sounds really MONish in that 'physicality above quality' soundbite there.

I think the penultimate word in your post is the telling one. It is a few words from which you have spun a whole theory. Are players like Delph, Westwood and Bacuna selected for their physicality?

Bacuna to a large extent, yes, he's pretty barrelly and quick. Delph has stronger than he looks and fairly quick as well, but Westwood I grant you, along with KEA, is not there for physical reasons. This is how he is advanced from MON's '70s football. But he does overvalue the physical still, I think, and his tactics and the majority of his signings bear (or is it bare?) this out.

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I would say the thing that makes Messi a cut above the likes of Ronaldo is that his work ethic is another level above and he has enough physical presence to get lumps kicked out of him, yet he stays on his feet. He is a remarkable player. Lambert not listing every quality that makes a player as wonderful as Messi does not mean he eschews those qualities.

I find criticising him on the implication that his list is exhaustive and not a quick response to a benign question to be on shaky ground.

There are plenty of things to criticse Lambert on this season outrage of excellent qualities in footballers is not one.

In respect of the list of players you have mentioned, they're all lightening quick between the ears.

I actually think that the off-the-top-of-the-head nature of the comments rather reveals his instincts. Certainly his tactics reflect this sort of mentality.

You're certainly right on the work-rate point, however, and I would add that a sense of team-ethic also puts Messi above Ronaldo. When Messi wins the Balon d'Or, he smiles and says thank you. When Ronaldo won it, he cried like an actress. That's the difference.

And you're certainly right about the footballing brain. Whether its the reaction time of dribblers like Neymar or the ability to see the whole game instantly like a picture in your head, like Xavi or Pirlo, or a sense of position and knowing where to be at which point, like Aguero or Javi Martinez, all the best players have something unimaginably fast going on in their brains.

Looking closer to home, would McGrath had been as good as he was without the turn of pace in his legs or the turn of pace in his head? There are many facets which make up the truly great players. The cultural ethos you have touched on with Barca's crop is another ingredient of importance, especially when you consider the vast amount of English players who had the physical attributes, who had the technical ability, but lacked the mental strength to put the work in.

I see Lambert as making comments which sum up the positives of the current squad and nothing more. I think he failed in the last summer window to bring in the right blend of quality to play between tiny, but technically sound players, like Westwood and Delph and the beasts of Benteke which is why we're so meh. I am still giving Lambert the benefit of the doubt because I don't think we have the players (and you can say that he is culpable for that and yes, we can still play a lot better).

[Isa]

Ronaldo is a physically superior player to Messi though. He is much more stronger and much faster. Messi's increased work rate is down to Barça's intense pressing system more than anything else, it is the same for all their players. The reason most people admire and laud Messi is due to his technical attributes such as touch, vision, dribbling, finishing, creativity etc.

[Monty]

McGrath is a perfect example in general, but I was going for current players otherwise you end up with things like "well Jan Neeskens used to smoke at half time and it never did him any harm" - totally irrelevant to how the game is played now.

We certainly don't have the players, but that's no reason to give Lambert the benefit of the doubt as he has shown time after time that the most important player in his attacking set up is a Big Man centre forward. That can be called many things, but it cannot be ignored if you're looking to make predictions about how a future Villa team under him might look.

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To go back to Andi, I think this is the huge problem Lambert has and has thus far failed to address (for whatever reasons).

Andi is a forward. He bustles about and works very hard, but that does not make him an attacking midfielder. He is stocky, a pest and capable of leathering the ball in from distance or nudging a one yard effort over with his knee. As far as I can tell, we have three/front line forwards; Benteke, Kozak, Andi and Gabby.

For me, we have three Premiership quality sitting/central midfielders; Delph, Westwood and KEA, the latter of which has only shown he is capable the past few weeks.

Gabby can play in-between the the two based purely on his pace which will always pose an opposition manager a tactical problem. But we have this great swathe of the pitch that we have nobody of genuine quality to look to. The likes of Albrighton and Tonev are not up to that task and are at best squad players.

While I don't subsribe to the view that you have a player to do "X" job and another to do "Y" job; they should all be nippy, capable of passing it well, moving into space etc. However, it really isn't Andi's fault at all that he is not capable of doing a job that he is neither physically or technically equipped to do.

[Monty]

While I don't subsribe to the view that you have a player to do "X" job and another to do "Y" job; they should all be nippy, capable of passing it well, moving into space etc. However, it really isn't Andi's fault at all that he is not capable of doing a job that he is neither physically or technically equipped to do.

You're right, they should all be able to do certain things, moving into space and passing. I disagree that Andi can't necessarily do it, though - we've seen his link-up play with Benteke really shine on a few occasions - I'm just unconvinced our manager has really coached them in a way which really makes/allows them to do it.