Transfer Speculation / Gossip

[RussellC]

You say that as though those teams finished totally out of sight of us, whcih just isn't the case.

I'm not going to get into an ifs and buts argument but the line between 9th and 16th is a fine one, where a couple of results going the other way makes all the difference.

No, I say it as examples of teams that outperformed us last season.  More relevant, in my opinion, than comparing us to Coventry or Leeds.  Palace in particular were dead and buried and yet finished 7 points ahead of us. 

A couple of results going the other way would have seen us relegated.[/b[

You've made Chris' point for him. A couple of results either way and you can be relagted. Or finish 9th. Small margins in this poor, poor league.

We finished 12 points away from 9th place and 5 points away from being relegated. Whoever made it, it wasn't a very good point.

[supertom]

I think we're okay for another year to be honest. I expect us to be a tad stronger than last season, and I'd rather start a season without our best player, than finish a season without him, so hopefully Tekkers coming back into the side at the end of this year will see us finishing reasonable, as opposed to what happened last season and in McLeish's where we lost our top scorer and crawled over the line. I'm calm(ish), though in part because I don't want to just worry about relegation just yet to be honest. I need a break. I think we'll keep our heads above water throughout the season, barring too many injuries. I think we'll stay in or around that bloated middle in the Prem full of average as shite sides. The 3 promoted sides will struggle. Some of the overachievers of last season like Hull will struggle. Southampton will need to buy 4-5 really top players or they'll be down here too. Palace are going to struggle and Sunderland will too. There's plenty of competition for those bottom 3 places. I expect us to remain reasonably comfortable and in actuality, I think we'll improve on our position of 15th from the last 2 years. Again, barring a nightmare injury scenario, but we're surely due some luck on that front.

However, in a years time when we could conceivably lose Vlaar, Delph and Gabby for nothing, and still have an owner in place who doesn't want us any more, and I'd imagine Benteke eyeing the exit door, I'll probably be bricking it at the thought of the following season.

Until we're back in the shite, I'm temporarily retired from the worrying business. I'm currently in the head in the clouds business of believing Joe Cole will be our new Merson, that Senderos will surprise every one, and that Delph will step up a level and hit double figures from midfield, and that Westwood will suddenly discover he's actually Pirlo's love child...oh and a lottery win...that'd be nice too.

[Des Little]

However we look at it, last season was shit and this season is going to be shit as well unless we do something about it.

[RussellC]

It's the first week in July and you've already written off the season, don't you think even by the standards of Internet hysteria that is a little bit premature?

Doom laden hysteria. Good one. I'll rise above any kind of retort using the words "naive" or "deluded". No one's written off the season yet. People are worried about next season given the current situation of the club off the pitch, and recent years of struggle on it. That to me is just realism and I'm afraid that pointing out if we'd won just 40% more games last season we'd have finished 9th doesn't fill me with any more optimism at the moment.

[supertom]

You say that as though those teams finished totally out of sight of us, whcih just isn't the case.

I'm not going to get into an ifs and buts argument but the line between 9th and 16th is a fine one, where a couple of results going the other way makes all the difference.

No, I say it as examples of teams that outperformed us last season.  More relevant, in my opinion, than comparing us to Coventry or Leeds.  Palace in particular were dead and buried and yet finished 7 points ahead of us. 

A couple of results going the other way would have seen us relegated.[/b[

You've made Chris' point for him. A couple of results either way and you can be relagted. Or finish 9th. Small margins in this poor, poor league.

We finished 12 points away from 9th place and 5 points away from being relegated. Whoever made it, it wasn't a very good point.

Unless you hit 40 points you've not really been anything close to comfortable really. In Houlliers season we'd reached 40 points by mid-april I think, so in retrospect we'd got home and dry with plenty of time to spare.

That said I also believe the league doesn't lie. The bottom 3 last season was as should have been really. They were all wretched. I would expect with our squad as is, that there will almost certainly be 3 teams worse than us next season.

[hilts_coolerking]

Another poster mentioned those clubs, not me. I just tried to add a little perspective rather than the doom laden hysteria that seems to have stricken a few of you.

It's the first week in July and you've already written off the season, don't you think even by the standards of Internet hysteria that is a little bit premature?

I rather think it's you who is getting hysterical.  Not only have I not written off the season, anywhere, but all I have done is point out three clubs that outperformed us last season, which they did.

If you believe that equates to 'doom-laden hysteria' then the problem lies with you, not me.

[hilts_coolerking]

We finished 12 points away from 9th place and 5 points away from being relegated. Whoever made it, it wasn't a very good point.

Exactly.  A couple of results going the other way, in our favour, would have seen us finish 12th rather than 15th, and above only one of the three teams I mentioned.  A couple of results going the other way, against us, would have seen us go down.

[Chris Smith]

It's the first week in July and you've already written off the season, don't you think even by the standards of Internet hysteria that is a little bit premature?

Doom laden hysteria. Good one. I'll rise above any kind of retort using the words "naive" or "deluded". No one's written off the season yet. People are worried about next season given the current situation of the club off the pitch, and recent years of struggle on it. That to me is just realism and I'm afraid that pointing out if we'd won just 40% more games last season we'd have finished 9th doesn't fill me with any more optimism at the moment.

You say realism, I say pessimism; you say deluded (although pretending that you aren't), I say 'doom laden'.

I would accept your argument if there was even a little balance to it, instead from what I see you immediately jump on any argument not quite fitting in with your hard line stance.

For me there are too many ifs-and-buts to be able to draw any firm conclusions about next season, and that will be the case until I see the squad at the end of August. I am all for a good discussion but there has to be more to it than everything is shit and we are going to get relegated. I have seen it too often, playing up what other clubs are doing while dismissing anything that we do.   

[hilts_coolerking]

I am all for a good discussion but there has to be more to it than everything is shit and we are going to get relegated.

If anyone was actually saying that you'd have a point.  But they aren't, so you don't.

Why is it that dissent is misrepresented as utter doom and gloom by those who don't agree?

[ChicagoLion]

I can not get either excited or concerned until we know who the owner will be.

[Ads]

You say that as though those teams finished totally out of sight of us, whcih just isn't the case.

I'm not going to get into an ifs and buts argument but the line between 9th and 16th is a fine one, where a couple of results going the other way makes all the difference.

No, I say it as examples of teams that outperformed us last season.  More relevant, in my opinion, than comparing us to Coventry or Leeds.  Palace in particular were dead and buried and yet finished 7 points ahead of us. 

A couple of results going the other way would have seen us relegated.[/b[

You've made Chris' point for him. A couple of results either way and you can be relagted. Or finish 9th. Small margins in this poor, poor league.

We finished 12 points away from 9th place and 5 points away from being relegated. Whoever made it, it wasn't a very good point.

Stoke beat us twice. If we had beaten them twice, we'd have finished level or above them; that's what two games can do. So the point still stands.

The inference was however towards the Arsenal and Liverpool games which saw us 9th and put a gloss on a poor season.

[RussellC]

For me there are too many ifs-and-buts to be able to draw any firm conclusions about next season, and that will be the case until I see the squad at the end of August. I am all for a good discussion but there has to be more to it than everything is shit and we are going to get relegated. I have seen it too often, playing up what other clubs are doing while dismissing anything that we do.   

I think you need to re-read the posts Chris. You're the only person that keeps mentioning next season. We're talking about where we finished last season and making reference to the 2 signings that we've brought-in so far this summer. You seem completely oblivious to the situation the club is currently in, in terms of ownership, management and playing staff. You're entitled to your opinion obviously, but I can't understand this acceptance of everything that happens at the club. You seem completely oblivious to how badly we're doing as a Football Club (or happy with it?).

You talk about balance and realism, but then make statements about how close we were to finishing 9th last season, that completely contradict the point you're trying to make. And your assertion that mine (or any other's) viewpoint that "everything is shit" is lazy, patronising and simply not true.

[RussellC]

You say that as though those teams finished totally out of sight of us, whcih just isn't the case.

I'm not going to get into an ifs and buts argument but the line between 9th and 16th is a fine one, where a couple of results going the other way makes all the difference.

No, I say it as examples of teams that outperformed us last season.  More relevant, in my opinion, than comparing us to Coventry or Leeds.  Palace in particular were dead and buried and yet finished 7 points ahead of us. 

A couple of results going the other way would have seen us relegated.[/b[

You've made Chris' point for him. A couple of results either way and you can be relagted. Or finish 9th. Small margins in this poor, poor league.

We finished 12 points away from 9th place and 5 points away from being relegated. Whoever made it, it wasn't a very good point.

Stoke beat us twice. If we had beaten them twice, we'd have finished level or above them; that's what two games can do. So the point still stands.

The inference was however towards the Arsenal and Liverpool games which saw us 9th and put a gloss on a poor season.

It still doesn't stack-up, it just makes it more illogical. You could pick out any 2 fixtures and say "if" the results were different. They weren't. Fulham beat us twice this season. We beat Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. It's a mute point. It means nothing. We finished 15th, 5 points from safety. That's the reality. There' literally nothing you can say to me that will make me think that was anything other than a poor season.

[Ads]

It's not illogical at all. I think you're refusing to engage in the positive interpretation of what Hilts said.

Hilts brought up the point about a couple of games, albeit to show how things could have gone worse than they did and how others (i.e Stoke) out performed us. I am merely pointing out that it cuts both ways and that it also shows that as little as 180 minutes of football would see us claw back on Stoke and that they're not insurmountably in front of us.

I have not suggested anywhere that it wasn't a poor season. It was piss poor and I have not pretended otherwise.

Edit: I think the slip in language of being 5 points from safety rather than 5 from the drop suggests you're a glass half empty chap!

[RussellC]

It's not illogical at all. I think you're refusing to engage in the positive interpretation of what Hilts said.

Hilts brought up the point about a couple of games, albeit to show how things could have gone worse than they did and how others (i.e Stoke) out performed us. I am merely pointing out that it cuts both ways and that it also shows that as little as 180 minutes of football would see us claw back on Stoke and that they're not insurmountably in front of us.

I have not suggested anywhere that it wasn't a poor season. It was piss poor and I have not pretended otherwise.

You compared last season to Houllier's where we finished ninth. Chris made the statement that "there was a fine line between finishing 9th and 15th." I disagreed with both of those points.

Your last point however, I agree with wholeheartedly!