The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Dave]

Again Downing is not a fair comparison. That was around the same time Liverpool spent £35m on Andy Carroll. They had money to burn and everyone else took the piss.

But right now is the time that they are spending £20m on Lazar Markovic, £25m on Adam Lallana and £20m on Dejan Lovren. Whatever form he is in at the moment, I don't think it's unfair to suggest he is worth a good amount more to a team than any of the above three transfers.

[LeeB]

The passing weeks are not helping his case much, are they?

[PaulWinch again]

No I think it's proving quite categoric now.

[Lee]

No I think it's proving quite categoric now.

.. and the reason that he should have gone last summer, but at the very latest December.

Watched the game, and it's like watching a completely different team

[Risso]

He also signed Jordan Bowery who was so out of his depth I felt sorry for him.

He signed some who worked, some who didn't.

Lambert was a disaster as a manager and we should have binned him ages ago, but his transfer record was pretty good.

Sorry, I don't agree.  Overall, his transfer record was awful.  How many full backs did he try for a start?  And as for Tonev, he doesn't even look like a footballer.

[PeterWithesShin]

He also signed Jordan Bowery who was so out of his depth I felt sorry for him.

He signed some who worked, some who didn't.

Lambert was a disaster as a manager and we should have binned him ages ago, but his transfer record was pretty good.

Sorry, I don't agree.  Overall, his transfer record was awful.  How many full backs did he try for a start?  And as for Tonev, he doesn't even look like a footballer.

Less than MON.

[Toronto Villa]

I can't see anyone paying more than £20m for him until he proves he can recapture his previous form.  Transfer history is littered with strikers who had a very good first season and never did it again.

Agreed, but he's not just had a very good first season. He's had one excellent season, one very good season interrupted by injuries and this season's horrible one.

And nobody wanting to pay more than £20m for him is fine by me - because there is no way on earth we would sell him for that.

When you consider we got £20m for that roach Downing, there is no way we'd sell Benteke for that. The market will establish the price for a 24yr old CF with immense upside and the most recent domestic transaction was Lukaku at £28m. Benteke is at least worth that.

Again Downing is not a fair comparison. That was around the same time Liverpool spent £35m on Andy Carroll. They had money to burn and everyone else took the piss.

How much is he worth right now Ad@m?

[Damo70]

I don't think there haven't been any "unqualified" successes.  Even Benteke, who was superb in his first season, has been hugely disappointing this season.

He has been disappointing this season, but he has still been a complete success as a transfer.

82 appearances, 38 goals.

As near as dammit to a one in two striker, one who cost us peanuts and who we could easily sell for 5 times as much as he cost us if we wanted.

That's absolutely a success by any measure.

I agree he's a been a success but I think your numbers are wrong.  I thought the general view was that he cost us £8m, which isn't exactly peanuts, and if we were to try to sell him now I don't think anyone would pay more than £20m for him given his injury record to date.

You're right, I was thiniing he cost us 3.5 for some reason.

Savo cost us 3.5, easy to get them mixed up.

[Toronto Villa]

I don't think there haven't been any "unqualified" successes.  Even Benteke, who was superb in his first season, has been hugely disappointing this season.

He has been disappointing this season, but he has still been a complete success as a transfer.

82 appearances, 38 goals.

As near as dammit to a one in two striker, one who cost us peanuts and who we could easily sell for 5 times as much as he cost us if we wanted.

That's absolutely a success by any measure.

I agree he's a been a success but I think your numbers are wrong.  I thought the general view was that he cost us £8m, which isn't exactly peanuts, and if we were to try to sell him now I don't think anyone would pay more than £20m for him given his injury record to date.

You're right, I was thiniing he cost us 3.5 for some reason.

Savo cost us 3.5, easy to get them mixed up.

I think at the time the number being thrown about was 7m. Then again, with a number of the transfer fees that were quoted during Lambert higher than actual, it is possible we paid less than 7m for him.

[passitsideways]

His misses in the transfer market were almost entirely limited to the ones he picked up in bargain basement dives, IMO. It depends on who you class in that category though, I suppose. For instance, Lowton gets reported from anywhere between below a million and 3 million (I think he's a partial success); Bennett between 2-3 million, and KEA 2-4 million (both misses). After that, you've got Benteke (a blazing success); Vlaar/Okore/Cissokho (handy enough, but not brilliant); and Kozak/Gil/Sanchez (jury still out on each of them, but I'm optimistic.) Out of the cheap signings, I guess there's been slim pickings (Westwood and Bacuna among the misses in Bowery/Helenius/Tonev/Luna/Sylla/Cole), but I'd argue that's pretty much the hit rate when it comes to getting competent PL footballers from that pool.

Even though thankfully his tenure is in the rear-view mirror, I think it's interesting to explore all this in the context of transfer policy going forward, and with questions such as whether Lambert delegated the signings to the scouting team mostly; the current state of our scouting; and whether Sherwood is going to be in charge of transfers.

[Ad@m]

I can't see anyone paying more than £20m for him until he proves he can recapture his previous form.  Transfer history is littered with strikers who had a very good first season and never did it again.

Agreed, but he's not just had a very good first season. He's had one excellent season, one very good season interrupted by injuries and this season's horrible one.

And nobody wanting to pay more than £20m for him is fine by me - because there is no way on earth we would sell him for that.

When you consider we got £20m for that roach Downing, there is no way we'd sell Benteke for that. The market will establish the price for a 24yr old CF with immense upside and the most recent domestic transaction was Lukaku at £28m. Benteke is at least worth that.

Again Downing is not a fair comparison. That was around the same time Liverpool spent £35m on Andy Carroll. They had money to burn and everyone else took the piss.

How much is he worth right now Ad@m?

Yes, I thought about this conversation as the goals ere rattling in.

To be fair though I could've scored against that Sunderland defence yesterday and I'm worth no more than £5-10m!

[Toronto Villa]

Yes I am pretty sure you and I up front could have managed at least one between us!

I think the actual value of most transfer fees is a combination of what the market has set, the desperation or interest of the buyer, and off course a players worth to the seller. Right now he's worth £50m+ to us, even if the actual value might be less than that.

[Risso]

His misses in the transfer market were almost entirely limited to the ones he picked up in bargain basement dives, IMO. It depends on who you class in that category though, I suppose. For instance, Lowton gets reported from anywhere between below a million and 3 million (I think he's a partial success); Bennett between 2-3 million, and KEA 2-4 million (both misses). After that, you've got Benteke (a blazing success); Vlaar/Okore/Cissokho (handy enough, but not brilliant); and Kozak/Gil/Sanchez (jury still out on each of them, but I'm optimistic.) Out of the cheap signings, I guess there's been slim pickings (Westwood and Bacuna among the misses in Bowery/Helenius/Tonev/Luna/Sylla/Cole), but I'd argue that's pretty much the hit rate when it comes to getting competent PL footballers from that pool.

Even though thankfully his tenure is in the rear-view mirror, I think it's interesting to explore all this in the context of transfer policy going forward, and with questions such as whether Lambert delegated the signings to the scouting team mostly; the current state of our scouting; and whether Sherwood is going to be in charge of transfers.

Of everything he was dire at, buying players was probably the least worst, but it's still a million miles away from being good enough to be in a director of football type position.

[silhillvilla]

He should have been sacked with Karsa & Culverhouse, how he survived that episode is ridiculous

[brian green]

I think the deal Sil was that if he did to Karsa and Culverhouse what Michael Corleone did to Fredo, he would be allowed to stay on.  Should have been a complete clear out if half of the allegations were true.