Everton v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[Smirker]

An embarrassment of the highest order.

That is anti football

Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club

Were you saying that on Wednesday evening?

Exactly, some overreactions in here. Lambert is doing fine with what he has. We are 10th, we aren't going down. This summer is important though.

[Tuco Salamanca]

Over reaction. We were superb at the back for 60 mins. They'd had one shot on target and playing 3-5-2 had stopped them from being able to pass through us. Vlaar gets injured, can't turn for the first and goes off and we look shoddy at the back. If Vlaar stays fit we take 3 points and people talk about how resilient we are this season and how we are only 7 points behind the toon. Yes I would like us to play more expansive but we weren't poor today. The game plan almost worked a treat.

With the greatest respect this is so far off the mark (IMO). This type of performance (similar to west ham against Chelsea) will probably yield a result 1 in about 10 times. If you constantly submit possession and territory you will almost always cave eventually and if you don't it will almost certainly be down to luck. Our defence was excellent for 60mins but they were constantly being pressed. That was barely a game plan, don't let organised defending cloud a complete reluctance to try and play football. I could accept that performance (just about) if we were playing bayern Munich. But we weren't, we were playing a below strength team assembled for a similar amount of money, missing their main and only real striker coming off the back of a 4-0 defeat by a team playing a style and formation we usually utilise and get results away from home with. Their manager is using someone else's players and has been in his position a lot less time than ours.

The second half was bad, I grant you. That first half was a good performance. We sat in, broke and looked dangerous on the counter. We seemed to abandon that in the second half but I don't for one minute think Lambert told them to. I think they looked shot after Wednesday. One of the things I like about Lambert Is the way he alters our formation to the opposition we are playing, it shows a flexibility that you don't normally get from British coaches. We are the only side in the league cutting our wage bill, both our major signings have been ruled out for the season and we are sat in tenth. I just don't think he is doing that badly.

I understand where you're coming from but we aren't playing any football whatsoever. Its scrappy long-ball shite with the odd decent counter-attack thrown in.

If we had a bigger budget I wouldn't want Lambert to spend it. £7m on Kozak when we are in such desperate need of a decent midfielder?

[Dribbler]

People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?

I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.

Is that not his job? If he'd played 4 at the back and Lowton at right back, the midfield runners would have had a field day and Baines would have tore Lowts a new one. People saying they had no striker on the pitch but we had three CB's clearly have no perspective of how the modern game is played. How many times have Barca or Spain played without a striker?

Well i would say the remit of his job is a little larger than 'pick a side to stiffle the opposition', for instance i seem to remember the club and Lambert saying at the beginning of his tenure something about 'playing football' the right way.

I agree that we had to be wary of Everton's goal scoring threat, with 34 of their 43 goals this season not coming from their main striker, and said as much in the prematch thread and the start of the match thread. We weren't however playing Bareclona and have played better football against better teams then them this season so i don't agree there was a need for such completely negative tactics. The way we were set up we had no midfield or attacking threat whatsoever and without a massive slice of luck such as we had at Southampton, Everton we're always going to get the result.

I would rather lose playing football and having a go, than playing this negative ****

[pauliewalnuts]

How many games have we actually played well in this season? I think you can count them on one hand. Arsenal and Chelsea away. Liverpool away for 45 mins (a good result and a bit of resolute defending but backs to the wall in the second half). Parts of the WBA game. That's about it?

Man City was a great result and a decent second half performance but the first half was one of the most one sided halves I've ever seen.

We are just so unconvincing. Great resilience against Albion but you even saw the same thing there, a near total inability to keep the ball and a constant lumping it up at  Benteke.

We may very we'll finish 12th. We might finish 17th. I don't know, but honestly, who wants to watch us play like an Allardyce team?

[Monty]

The problem with Lambert's tactics isn't that he's long ball, it's that he's impatient to the extent that long balls become acceptable. If there's space in the midfield like against Liverpool then we'll pass it quickly along the floor through the middle, but if that space isn't there we'll be just as impatient to get it forward quickly, resulting in the old 'lump it and lose it' situation.

What Lambert saw as successful against Liverpool wasn't the fact that we were passing it along the floor, but that we were getting it to Benteke quickly. He doesn't seem to realise that the method of getting the ball there is all important. The players have no calm, no training in how to move when a teammate gets the ball, no clues on when to hold it and when to make the telling pass, and are obviously drilled to get it forward quickly by whatever means necessary. If the opposition give us space in the middle, great. If they don't, like almost every team in Europe since 2005, tough shit.

[mattjpa]

Manager reaction from Goodison Park. 

Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points.  'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home.  We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there.  They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it.  There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate.  But you move on and go again on Monday.'

Ha ha. I would laugh if I thought he was joking but her seriously believes what he is saying and for that reason we will never under improve under him.

Where exactly were the chances to settle it he mentions?

He must think people are stupid. I wish one of these gutless fucking journalists would take him to task on this drivel

Isn't that what Pat Murphy tries to do only to get absolutely slated on here and spoken to like shit by the manager?

I guess so. But for me, I would ask "which good chances, Paul?" Or " how did you deserve the goal, Paul? It was your first attack of the entire game" or "can you explain your teams reluctance to try and play football?"

[ciggiesnbeer]

I think hartman is partly right.With a better Gabby instead of Holt, and a better midfielder than Westwood, then we would'nt have lost today.

 Bacuna and Bertrand were very good, and the back 3 restricted them to almost nothing until they scored.The lack of quality on the ball was our undoing.

If only we had the opportunity , some kind of window to address that lack of quality on the ball, particularly in midfield.

So frustrating.

[hartman_1982]

I think hartman is partly right.With a better Gabby instead of Holt, and a better midfielder than Westwood, then we would'nt have lost today.

 Bacuna and Bertrand were very good, and the back 3 restricted them to almost nothing until they scored.The lack of quality on the ball was our undoing.

It's partially that, but it's tactical as well. Why start 3 centre halves against a team with no strikers? it immediately says you don't want possession. Lambert has lost any sort of attacking thoughts he ever had, and we are an embarrassing team. As paulie says we're the sort of team that I would want to see relegated if I wasn't a fan.

No it doesn't. Martinez plays three at the back all the time and his sides always look to retain possession. It says you want them going outside you and not playing through you. Baines is a winger but he underlaps rather than overlaps and we forced him outside today.

[Irish villain]

I despise the way this ownership know so little about football. They have no idea what success is, what it costs and what fans aspire to see.

Yep. An amazing few years in villa history and such passivity around the whole club.

[IAmTheOneIanOlney]

I played centre back for a Sunday league team that had a decent back four and a piss-poor midfield. None of us at the back wanted to hoof the ball aimlessly but because there was no ball retention in front of us, minimal movement to help you find a pass or any positive interaction with the forwards, we were constantly forced into doing just that. The ball just kept coming back. So you end up reverting to the basics of "Just get it clear".  Watching the Villa defence having to do the same thing is embarrassing.

[PaulWinch again]

I'd make Lambert sit down and watch a rerun of the game and point out all these chances. We were fucking rubbish.

[Rudy65]

Mind you for all the stick we give PL, me included, the players need to stand up and take some flack.

The sheer inability to hold onto the ball, pass simply to each other is appalling. What do they do in training?

A couple of times in the second half Weimann and Delph had the chance to make a simple oass forward to start an attack and made a hash of it.

There seems to be no attempt to slow the game down with good ball retention when we are under pressure. We give the ball away and the pressure starts all over again.

The team defended well for the first 65 mins but you just knew Everton would get through eventually and that we couldn't then respond, because we don't have the ability to do so.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

The problem with Lambert's tactics isn't that he's long ball, it's that he's impatient to the extent that long balls become acceptable. If there's space in the midfield like against Liverpool then we'll pass it quickly along the floor through the middle, but if that space isn't there we'll be just as impatient to get it forward quickly, resulting in the old 'lump it and lose it' situation.

What Lambert saw as successful against Liverpool wasn't the fact that we were passing it along the floor, but that we were getting it to Benteke quickly. He doesn't seem to realise that the method of getting the ball there is all important. The players have no calm, no training in how to move when a teammate gets the ball, no clues on when to hold it and when to make the telling pass, and are obviously drilled to get it forward quickly by whatever means necessary. If the opposition give us space in the middle, great. If they don't, like almost every team in Europe since 2005, tough shit.

Beautifully summed up, Monty.

[sirlordbaltimore]

Watched online and have to say i was not pleased with what i saw (even at 0-1 OR 1-1).

From the off it was clear our rumoured back 3 was in fact 5 with OUR 2 midfielders being outnumbered by their counterparts meaning we just couldn't get the ball.

I didn't want Holt, i'll gladly admit that before asking what was his purpose today?. He did absolutely nothing to my eyes, and i do mean NOTHING. He's just a big lump that does very little to warrant a start. I have an awful feeling we're going to see loads of him as we did Heskey under O'Neill. Not because they offer anything but because of stupid stubbornness from the blokes that brought them.

Going to Everton on the back of two decent results with a game plan of seemingly being to hang on for a dour point at best was truly depressing. They had some BIG players missing and with a bit more positivity could've been there for the taking.

As it was, it was just dreadful negative crap.

[hartman_1982]

People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?

I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.

Is that not his job? If he'd played 4 at the back and Lowton at right back, the midfield runners would have had a field day and Baines would have tore Lowts a new one. People saying they had no striker on the pitch but we had three CB's clearly have no perspective of how the modern game is played. How many times have Barca or Spain played without a striker?

Well i would say the remit of his job is a little larger than 'pick a side to stiffle the opposition', for instance i seem to remember the club and Lambert saying at the beginning of his tenure something about 'playing football' the right way.

I agree that we had to be wary of Everton's goal scoring threat, with 34 of their 43 goals this season not coming from their main striker, and said as much in the prematch thread and the start of the match thread. We weren't however playing Bareclona and have played better football against better teams then them this season so i don't agree there was a need for such completely negative tactics. The way we were set up we had no midfield or attacking threat whatsoever and without a massive slice of luck such as we had at Southampton, Everton we're always going to get the result.

I would rather lose playing football and having a go, than playing this negative ****

Why is it that all of our good results are lucky and all of the bad ones are down to Lambert? The bottom line is we are the tenth best team in this league and let's not forget that we have already played Liverpool and Arsenal twice. For a club slashing their wage bill, the manager can't be doing that badly.