Delph for England

[Dave]

As for Dave's post English certainly do not have a physical advantage at the same age.

Oh, that's fine then. Peter says that they don't, so case closed.

Apart from the whole thing about speed and physicality being what youth coaches would look for rather than tactical awareness or technical ability.

Physicality in grass roots football coaching

FA Chairman says that coaching needs to place less emphasis on physicality

FA review says that kids have been taught for too long to play like adults

Experienced heads are calling for less emphasis on physical dominance in youth football. They’re concerned that naturally taller, faster and stronger young players are being valued in youth football over what might be smaller, yet more skilful, intelligent and technique-driven youngsters.
The problem seems to stem from a "results driven" environment even at informal/Sunday league level. According to Jamie Carragher this "get stuck in" mentality might be harder to unlock than first thought. Even at professional levels the English mandate seems to be to utilise physical dominance in order to "stop them playing". “Them” usually being a rounded team of elegant and passionate professionals from overseas.

[peter w]

As for Dave's post English certainly do not have a physical advantage at the same age.

Oh, that's fine then. Peter says that they don't, so case closed.

Apart from the whole thing about speed and physicality being what youth coaches would look for rather than tactical awareness or technical ability.

Physicality in grass roots football coaching

FA Chairman says that coaching needs to place less emphasis on physicality

FA review says that kids have been taught for too long to play like adults

Experienced heads are calling for less emphasis on physical dominance in youth football. They’re concerned that naturally taller, faster and stronger young players are being valued in youth football over what might be smaller, yet more skilful, intelligent and technique-driven youngsters.
The problem seems to stem from a "results driven" environment even at informal/Sunday league level. According to Jamie Carragher this "get stuck in" mentality might be harder to unlock than first thought. Even at professional levels the English mandate seems to be to utilise physical dominance in order to "stop them playing". “Them” usually being a rounded team of elegant and passionate professionals from overseas.

Christ get over yourself. You don't like a different opinion to yours do you? just put a star next to the points you want to have stated as fact and then the ones you want to debate. otherwise stop acting the fool when there's a different point of view. Do you have friends in the real world? I mean, really? And if so do you act similarly with them?

[john e]

Oh well that's him gone then. His head will be turned at training like very villa player before him who got called up.

Apart from gabby

[Dave]

Christ get over yourself. You don't like a different opinion to yours do you? just put a star next to the points you want to have stated as fact and then the ones you want to debate. otherwise stop acting the fool when there's a different point of view. Do you have friends in the real world? I mean, really? And if so do you act similarly with them?

I'm happy for people to hold whatever opinion they like, as long as it's backed up. Your blanket dismissal of my point without adding anything to refute it wasn't doing that. So I replied in kind.

And considering you've been banned from posting here twice in the past, you might want to consider winding your neck in a little bit.

[peter w]

And now you're bringing up being banned because of not liking the dismissive manner of your post. You really are something aren't you?

If you want to just talk about the point then I'm happy to do so.

You brought up physicality and I said that English players are not more physical than others. And they're not. Just because you've added links to say that young players are coached in physicality does not mean that by the ages I referred to that they're more physical than anyone. You haven't backed up your [point by any scientific evidence to prove what you said. Therefore what science do i need to produce to counter your point?

[Dave]

You're the one that has for some reason turned this into some sort of personal affront. You can get as uppity as you like, but you're the one that brought us to this level. I simply pointed out that you might want to calm down a bit.

If youth coaching in this country has always prioritised physical prowess over technical prowess (and as the coaches themselves have said that is the case, and they are now trying to change that mentality it I think we can safely say that it's true) in coaching teenagers then I don't see it as a massive leap to suggest that they might be physically stronger and faster than players who haven't been picked because of their physical attributes. As that is a principle reason for why they are there in the first place.

You don't NEED to produce any science. If you want to make a point though, something to back up why you have that opinion might make it easier for people to understand why you think that. I could easily be wrong, but at least I'm offering a reason for what I think to be the case. Which also happens to be backed up by the result - England being better at youth football then senior football.

Instead of "pfft, well it just is". You know, like those dismissive posts that get you upset.

[peter w]

You brought up physicality as the reason we do well at U19 to U21 levels. I disagreed. You have not shown any evidence that we do well up to the levels that I mentioned because of physicality. Not one shred. yet you want me to give you a backed up response as to why i disagree? You show me your scientific research and I'll accept the point. Until then all you're offering is an opinion. With which I disagreed. it was then you got uppity and so did i in return.

 

[Dave]

You brought up physicality as the reason we do well at U19 to U21 levels. I disagreed. You have not shown any evidence that we do well up to the levels that I mentioned because of physicality. Not one shred. yet you want me to give you a backed up response as to why i disagree? You show me your scientific research and I'll accept the point. Until then all you're offering is an opinion. With which I disagreed. it was then you got uppity and so did i in return.

As I've said, I'm offering an opinion and a reason why I hold that opinion. You're offering nothing more than "that's wrong" with nothing more to say about why.

If you're not going to go any further than "you're wrong but I'm not going to give any reasons why you're wrong" then I can't really see this as a discussion worth carrying on with.

[Clampy]

In fairness Peter W, when you come out with comments like 'have you got any friends in the real world' when discussing football on a forum, then expect a response back.

[olaftab]

Great news after a depressing day Fabian is named in the squad to play Norway and the Swiss.

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Calum Chambers (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Everton)
Midfielders: Jack Colback (Newcastle United), Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United)

[JUAN PABLO]

Where's cleverley Hodgson out !!!!!

[peter w]

In fairness Peter W, when you come out with comments like 'have you got any friends in the real world' when discussing football on a forum, then expect a response back.

Fair enough.

[peter w]

You brought up physicality as the reason we do well at U19 to U21 levels. I disagreed. You have not shown any evidence that we do well up to the levels that I mentioned because of physicality. Not one shred. yet you want me to give you a backed up response as to why i disagree? You show me your scientific research and I'll accept the point. Until then all you're offering is an opinion. With which I disagreed. it was then you got uppity and so did i in return.

As I've said, I'm offering an opinion and a reason why I hold that opinion. You're offering nothing more than "that's wrong" with nothing more to say about why.

If you're not going to go any further than "you're wrong but I'm not going to give any reasons why you're wrong" then I can't really see this as a discussion worth carrying on with.

So your opinion and reason was:

 "If you've got a team of fast, 13 stone players playing against a team of technically intricate weaklings then at that age it will be a big advantage"

and backed that opinion up with no evidence that anything like that has happened with any English teams in any level of representative football. Then when I disagree you retort with:

"Oh, that's fine then. Peter says that they don't, so case closed."

No evidence was used other than opinion and I used my opinion.

Anyway, let Roberto martinez lead me:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/12/roberto-martinez-english-youth-everton

[Dave]

To reiterate, my reasoning was:

"If youth coaching in this country has always prioritised physical prowess over technical prowess (and as the coaches themselves have said that is the case, and they are now trying to change that mentality it I think we can safely say that it's true) in coaching teenagers then I don't see it as a massive leap to suggest that they might be physically stronger and faster than players who haven't been picked because of their physical attributes. As that is a principle reason for why they are there in the first place"

Which is then likely to be equalized as those not picked for their size, strength and speed develop physically.

I don't see that as a particularly controversial opinion. Which bit of that do you disagree with, that coaching in England has prioritised physicality over technical ability or that as other players get older they might catch up with those stronger players?

The interview with Martinez, it's very interesting - but I'm not sure how it disputes what I've said above.

[peter w]

Because you gave an opinion not backed up by anything scientific. That's all Martinez has, an opinion. And you. And me. Doesn't make it right just an opinion and no more or less valid than any other opinion.

You can find various facts and figures about coaching in this country to back up either side. But it doesn't change that I do not find physicality as the reason why we do not see English/British players progress. I already said what I thought the problem was and that being the psyche of our game especially in fans. You can be coached however you want but running around at 100 miles an hour is not conducive to seeing technical football for the connoisseur.