Darren Bent, can he keep us up??

[danno]

Benteke would be getting exactly the same accusations of lazyness  if the team was set up to play to Bent's strengths instead of the other way around. Bent's not going to come back and retrieve the ball from midfield, hold up the ball or throw himself into tackles - thats not his game, anymore than its any goal poachers in the PL. Might as well complain why Vlaar doesn't cross more into the box from the wing. What you have with Bent is a goal hanger and played on the ground to his feet with him off the shoulder of the last defender, he's as good as anyone. He just doesn't get those balls. At all. If we were set up to play like that i'd he'd be in double figures by now, and we'd be good few places higher.

Who would you supply him with?
Agree that we could've played 4-4-2 this year, but with who wide?
Two from Albrighton, Holman Carruthers and the Zog
and what about our midfield pairing? From Bannan Delph and Westwood?
I can see both sides of the argument.

i think the "no-wideman" arguement is a bit of a red herring. You don't need to be a winger to pass it on the floor to his feet, you just need someone who can pass! I don't think he's particurly good with crosses anyway.

OK that's fair enough.
Just out of interest though, what would be your team to get the best from him?

[glasses]

Benteke would be getting exactly the same accusations of lazyness  if the team was set up to play to Bent's strengths instead of the other way around. Bent's not going to come back and retrieve the ball from midfield, hold up the ball or throw himself into tackles - thats not his game, anymore than its any goal poachers in the PL. Might as well complain why Vlaar doesn't cross more into the box from the wing. What you have with Bent is a goal hanger and played on the ground to his feet with him off the shoulder of the last defender, he's as good as anyone. He just doesn't get those balls. At all. If we were set up to play like that i'd he'd be in double figures by now, and we'd be good few places higher.

I tend to disagree, because I think Benteke would also thrive in the role/team set up you suggest Bent plays best in.

well thats possible, but we'll never find out with the current manager

Well it appears not. Which I think is a shame. He likes the big man up top with a few playing off and around him, be it Gabby, Weimann, Holman, N'zogbia, and maybe Dawkins.

It's very one-eyed though. I get not using Bent in that system, he doesn't do the grafting bit like you say, but surely there should be a time when we look to try something different.

I'd still have sold him though. If ever a player summed up 'going through the motions'...

[Merv]

What's becoming clear to me is the team needs to be set up in a specific way to serve Bent best.

However, Benteke and Weimann appear to be doing well this season, despite a system/formation/strategy that does not get the best of out goalscorers....

[Greg N'Ash]

Benteke would be getting exactly the same accusations of lazyness  if the team was set up to play to Bent's strengths instead of the other way around. Bent's not going to come back and retrieve the ball from midfield, hold up the ball or throw himself into tackles - thats not his game, anymore than its any goal poachers in the PL. Might as well complain why Vlaar doesn't cross more into the box from the wing. What you have with Bent is a goal hanger and played on the ground to his feet with him off the shoulder of the last defender, he's as good as anyone. He just doesn't get those balls. At all. If we were set up to play like that i'd he'd be in double figures by now, and we'd be good few places higher.

Who would you supply him with?
Agree that we could've played 4-4-2 this year, but with who wide?
Two from Albrighton, Holman Carruthers and the Zog
and what about our midfield pairing? From Bannan Delph and Westwood?
I can see both sides of the argument.

i think the "no-wideman" arguement is a bit of a red herring. You don't need to be a winger to pass it on the floor to his feet, you just need someone who can pass! I don't think he's particurly good with crosses anyway.

OK that's fair enough.
Just out of interest though, what would be your team to get the best from him?

not so much the team as the tactics. Hoofing the ball up for bent or chest height punts is pointless. He's not got the best first touch as it is

[Greg N'Ash]

What you have with Bent is a goal hanger and played on the ground to his feet with him off the shoulder of the last defender, he's as good as anyone. He just doesn't get those balls. At all. If we were set up to play like that i'd he'd be in double figures by now, and we'd be good few places higher.

I think where that argument loses it's veracity is that set up for Benteke he's also got double figures, so how would we therefore be higher up the table? 

Well with that system you'd need someone in midfield who was comfortable with the ball on the ground and able to keep possession to at least get that far into the oppositions end to feed him. Presumably with more possession they'd be less goals the other end? Fantasyland i know.

[Concrete John]

What you have with Bent is a goal hanger and played on the ground to his feet with him off the shoulder of the last defender, he's as good as anyone. He just doesn't get those balls. At all. If we were set up to play like that i'd he'd be in double figures by now, and we'd be good few places higher.

I think where that argument loses it's veracity is that set up for Benteke he's also got double figures, so how would we therefore be higher up the table? 

Well with that system you'd need someone in midfield who was comfortable with the ball on the ground and able to keep possession to at least get that far into the oppositions end to feed him. Presumably with more possession they'd be less goals the other end? Fantasyland i know.

I think our possession stats have been OK at times this season.  You mention the 'hoof' above, but in truth that only happens when we go a goal or two down, players lose confidence and start hiding, leaving the defenders with no other options.

[django]

Bent would have been the perfect signing for us when we bought Heskey, we'd have probably got into the Champions League.

Now he's pretty much a passenger when he plays and i'd have Weimann ahead of him every time. You don't really need to look any further than our last game for the evidence, not only did he not get involved much but his touch was terrible.

[paul_e]

Benteke scores about the same as Bent does, so can't see how much difference he will make.  Unless we convert him to a centre half!

Benteke plays every game though, Bent doesn't.
I'd stick Bent in a leave him there till the end of the season. I like Benteke but he misses lots of chances. We need Bent's clinical finishing to save us, and as long as we have width (N'Zogbia are you listening?) we have a chance. It's our few remaining big players that will get us out of this god damn mess.

I meant in terms of goals to games.  Someone put the stats on the transfer thread the other day and we actually get more from Benteke than Bent.   

Bent never plays 90 minutes though.
The fairest comparison would be goals per minutes and I imagine Bent would pwn Benteke on that score.

no the fairest comparison would be goals/assists per minute.  Benteke gets picked ahead of him because as well as scoring a decent amount he creates stuff for the rest of the team as well.  Weimann is similar.

In fact...

League Only (can't be arsed finding cup stats)

Darren Bent - 1 goal/assist every 329.5 minutes
Christian Benteke - 1 goal/assist every 141.3 minutes
Andi Weimann - - 1 goal/assist every 269.5 minutes

Benteke is clearly miles ahead of Bent and even Weimann has proven more effective.  I don't see the point in changing the side to suit a player who has scored at marginally more than 1 in 4.  However you argue it Benteke and Weimann deserve to be ahead of Bent this season.

[django]

Doesn't surprise me Paul_e.

I'd argue that the side that played second half against Newcastle (with Bannan making way for Sylla if he's up to it) would be the way to go.

It might be hard to make a statistical case for Gabby as his goalscoring record is so poor these days, but we hold onto the ball far far better when he plays.

[mr-villa]

Yes but not if lambert is manager!

Christ Almighty mate give it up at least until the end of the season you are like a stuck record!

[pedro25]

Gabby and Bent both have 5 in 18 this season but Gabby contributes more so I'd have him ahead of Bent.  Given how we need to stiffen up defensively though I'd probably not start with either bearing in mind the form of Benteke, Weimann and N'Zogbia.  Those three then Westwood, Delph and Sylla in midfield for me right now.

[Surrey Villain]

Doesn't surprise me Paul_e.

I'd argue that the side that played second half against Newcastle (with Bannan making way for Sylla if he's up to it) would be the way to go.

It might be hard to make a statistical case for Gabby as his goalscoring record is so poor these days, but we hold onto the ball far far better when he plays.

So Bannan will make way for Sylla, leaving Westwood to be playmaker?  Then we will see how little he contributes and fans will have a new 'Bannan' to pick on!

[LeeB]

Seriously, how badly and anonymously does Bent have to play and how clearly better do we have to look with Benteke and Weimann in the side before people see how overrated Bent is? Seriously, I thought the Newcastle game would have been the clincher. I can't believe this debate is still happening.

It's football, people can't see through their own prejudices.

I like players that adapt to the teams they play for myself.

[Ron Manager]

I'd pick Weimann over Bent, every time. The best finisher at the club by a mile, but he also works his backside off and he clearly wants it. The hunger is obvious.

Bent just looks like he's coasting to me.

Our best bet is to play Benteke and Weimann together as a front two, IMO. N'Zogbia in that roving attacking role just behind, or getting out to the left to give us width.

The best finisher at the club is Darren Bent. He is a renowned goalscorer....without any service under this manager who is not fit for purpose.
Yes Weimann has impressed everybody and Benteke obviously. Perhaps Dawkins has been taken on as a provider of chances for them I certainly hope so.

The centre backs are at the moment not up to it either physically or lacking in application.

Sylla played for a club in the lower reaches of the French second division but he will be a useful addition I hope.

[LeeB]

I'd pick Weimann over Bent, every time. The best finisher at the club by a mile, but he also works his backside off and he clearly wants it. The hunger is obvious.

Bent just looks like he's coasting to me.

Our best bet is to play Benteke and Weimann together as a front two, IMO. N'Zogbia in that roving attacking role just behind, or getting out to the left to give us width.

The best finisher at the club is Darren Bent. He is a renowned goalscorer....without any service under this manager who is not fit for purpose.
Yes Weimann has impressed everybody and Benteke obviously. Perhaps Dawkins has been taken on as a provider of chances for them I certainly hope so.

The centre backs are at the moment not up to it either physically or lacking in application.

Sylla played for a club in the lower reaches of the French second division but he will be a useful addition I hope.

I don't mean to pick on you Ron, but the bullshit people keep spouting about Bent is getting right on my tits.

He's done fuck all for the best part of eighteen months now. It's about time he started making things work for himself.

He's rapidly slipping into Stephen Ireland mode of being a hugely expensive chocolate fireguard.