N'Zogbia

[Monty]

Maybe he is actually enjoying himself playing under a manager who actually wants his team to play football

I don't think we actually play that good football, personally.

We want to though, which is an undeniable difference to last year.

As Paul Doyle said in the Graun, every now and again we play really really good stuff, which makes how poorly we play the rest of the time just weird.

[PaulTheVillan]

Maybe he is actually enjoying himself playing under a manager who actually wants his team to play football

I don't think we actually play that good football, personally.

We want to though, which is an undeniable difference to last year.

As Paul Doyle said in the Graun, every now and again we play really really good stuff, which makes how poorly we play the rest of the time just weird.

In the first half v West Brom and Liverpool we played with a good tempo and kept the ball down. Sometimes we pass it sideways too much then hoof it down the pitch.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Zat Knight?

Zat Knight it's not right,
I don't feel so bright,
I don't care to sit tight.
Maybe I'll find on the way down the line
that I'm free, free to be me.
Zat Knight is a long way from home.
 

[neo_Villan]

I don't know why people are so suprised by how N'Zogbia has played recently anyway. Ever since he was dropped after the Everton game, I've thought he has always looked up for it in the sub appearences he made. He was also brilliant against Citeh in the cup. I still don't understand why he didn't get a run in the team after that game. Much more effective also playing more centrally in a free role.

[neo_Villan]

Double post.

[paul_e]

IF we sorted the defence and midfield, which is 3, maybe 4 signings at most, I think we would hurt a lot of sides regularly enough to be top 8, maybe higher.

Agree.
3 or 4 of the RIGHT quality would make all the difference.
We don't necessarily have to spend a fortune to do it either.

As you pointed out on another thread, about £15m would do it.

Peanuts compared to what we'd lose being relegated.

I think we need to upgrade what we have in most cases, the only out and out new signing we need is still , really, a replacement for Petrov.  Given that over this window and the summer we need 6 signings to replace 5 outgoings.

In order of priority:

A big physical midfielder to replace Petrov - Sissoko (£3m) would be a good choice, strong defensively but has some drive going forward and keeps the ball pretty well.

A fit, ball-winning, dominant central defender to replace Dunne - For me Douglas (couple of million) at Twente looks perfect.

A right back to replace Hutton - I like Lowton but he needs some competition. Lichaj isn't good enough to start a run of games if Lowton is injured.  I have no idea who to go for though.

A left back to replace Warnock - I'd want someone more versatile, and preferably an "older head"; someone towards the end of his career who can cover centrally and maybe in midfield as well would be perfect.

An attacking option who can play right across the field behind a front man to replace Ireland - Gouffran (£750k) seems too good to be true for this one, experienced, 2 footed, can cross, can shoot, runs with the ball well, can play the neat passes, we should get him.

A goalkeeper to replace Given - Guzan is rightly first choice, Given is a very very expensive bench ornament.  Someone with a bit of experience who's willing to come in and wait for a chance.

That would see us set for next year and could probably be achieved for a net outlay for £15m (the 3 I've named would be 6m-ish so 3-4m on each full back and 1-2m on a keeper - Remember Vlaar is a current Dutch international who we picked up for well inside that range).

[Monty]

Maybe he is actually enjoying himself playing under a manager who actually wants his team to play football

I don't think we actually play that good football, personally.

We want to though, which is an undeniable difference to last year.

As Paul Doyle said in the Graun, every now and again we play really really good stuff, which makes how poorly we play the rest of the time just weird.

In the first half v West Brom and Liverpool we played with a good tempo and kept the ball down. Sometimes we pass it sideways too much then hoof it down the pitch.

I think the hoofing it down the pitch is born out of the inexperience of the team. Passing it sideways is fine, you just have to have the patience to wait for it to open up a bit, and you have to have the movement off the ball to make little spaces in the midfield to help you get up the pitch - and of course you have to pass the ball with a bit of zip. We did that in the first half, but forgot it entirely in the second.

[paul_e]

Maybe he is actually enjoying himself playing under a manager who actually wants his team to play football

I don't think we actually play that good football, personally.

We want to though, which is an undeniable difference to last year.

As Paul Doyle said in the Graun, every now and again we play really really good stuff, which makes how poorly we play the rest of the time just weird.

In the first half v West Brom and Liverpool we played with a good tempo and kept the ball down. Sometimes we pass it sideways too much then hoof it down the pitch.

I think the hoofing it down the pitch is born out of the inexperience of the team. Passing it sideways is fine, you just have to have the patience to wait for it to open up a bit, and you have to have the movement off the ball to make little spaces in the midfield to help you get up the pitch - and of course you have to pass the ball with a bit of zip. We did that in the first half, but forgot it entirely in the second.

We're still mentally fragile, we knew they'd come out strong and needed to ride it out, after we conceded early in the 2nd half we lost the confidence to play our natural game.

[Villafirst]

Maybe he is actually enjoying himself playing under a manager who actually wants his team to play football

I don't think we actually play that good football, personally.

We want to though, which is an undeniable difference to last year.

As Paul Doyle said in the Graun, every now and again we play really really good stuff, which makes how poorly we play the rest of the time just weird.

In the first half v West Brom and Liverpool we played with a good tempo and kept the ball down. Sometimes we pass it sideways too much then hoof it down the pitch.

I think the hoofing it down the pitch is born out of the inexperience of the team. Passing it sideways is fine, you just have to have the patience to wait for it to open up a bit, and you have to have the movement off the ball to make little spaces in the midfield to help you get up the pitch - and of course you have to pass the ball with a bit of zip. We did that in the first half, but forgot it entirely in the second.

We're still mentally fragile, we knew they'd come out strong and needed to ride it out, after we conceded early in the 2nd half we lost the confidence to play our natural game.

I still think the mental fragility is down to the Chelsea 8-0. That result was so damaging which is still showing now.

[Jarpie]

I don't think it's just mental fragility, we effectively lost the midfield when Delph had to come off for Bannan who is not suited to that role at all, and especially after N'Zog was subbed for Holman we were completely floored as we couldn't keep ball at all.

WBA game really showed why we need physical midfielder who can keep the defensive duties and bring energy to the midfield.

[Concrete John]

Maybe he is actually enjoying himself playing under a manager who actually wants his team to play football

I don't think we actually play that good football, personally.

We want to though, which is an undeniable difference to last year.

As Paul Doyle said in the Graun, every now and again we play really really good stuff, which makes how poorly we play the rest of the time just weird.

In the first half v West Brom and Liverpool we played with a good tempo and kept the ball down. Sometimes we pass it sideways too much then hoof it down the pitch.

I think the hoofing it down the pitch is born out of the inexperience of the team. Passing it sideways is fine, you just have to have the patience to wait for it to open up a bit, and you have to have the movement off the ball to make little spaces in the midfield to help you get up the pitch - and of course you have to pass the ball with a bit of zip. We did that in the first half, but forgot it entirely in the second.

We're still mentally fragile, we knew they'd come out strong and needed to ride it out, after we conceded early in the 2nd half we lost the confidence to play our natural game.

I still think the mental fragility is down to the Chelsea 8-0. That result was so damaging which is still showing now.

Without Chelsea I don;t think we would have lost 0-4 to Spurs.  And without Chelsea and Spurs our heads wouldn;t have dropped after that early goal from Wigan, which means we wouldn;t have lost 0-3.  And so on.

It's really a cumulative effect, but it all started with Chelsea.

[Villafirst]

I don't think it's just mental fragility, we effectively lost the midfield when Delph had to come off for Bannan who is not suited to that role at all, and especially after N'Zog was subbed for Holman we were completely floored as we couldn't keep ball at all.

WBA game really showed why we need physical midfielder who can keep the defensive duties and bring energy to the midfield.

Most people can see the problems in midfield; unfortunately management can't!

[Fernando Partridge]

Great that Charlie had 2 assist in WBA game. However has a tenancy to hold on to ball and not pass. Against Bradford it was insane that he wanted to shoot and dribble past not pass to players. Has ability and atm coming back to fitness as he is currently overweight. I think he needs to keep a good attitude and application -which Lambert demands- and be benefit us all. Of course if he hits top form he ll wanna leave and i remember how he really wanted to go to arsenal but he's not that good.

[villan from luton]

Maybe he is actually enjoying himself playing under a manager who actually wants his team to play football

I don't think we actually play that good football, personally.

So you think the football we played in the first half on Saturday wasnt decent? I aree we have been dire at times, but the difference this year is at least we have a manager who is trying to get the team to play football. Personally I enjoy them trying to keep the ball like the two goals on Saturday rather than hoofing it up the pitch. There is still a tendancy to play long ball when we are losing, Bradford away was a  prime example. The first 15 minutes at their place, we were playing decent football and looked like winning easily, but went a goal down and instantly starting playing it longer, needed a calm head in there.

[tomd2103]

IF we sorted the defence and midfield, which is 3, maybe 4 signings at most, I think we would hurt a lot of sides regularly enough to be top 8, maybe higher.

Agree.
3 or 4 of the RIGHT quality would make all the difference.
We don't necessarily have to spend a fortune to do it either.

As you pointed out on another thread, about £15m would do it.

Peanuts compared to what we'd lose being relegated.

I think we need to upgrade what we have in most cases, the only out and out new signing we need is still , really, a replacement for Petrov.  Given that over this window and the summer we need 6 signings to replace 5 outgoings.

In order of priority:

A big physical midfielder to replace Petrov - Sissoko (£3m) would be a good choice, strong defensively but has some drive going forward and keeps the ball pretty well.

A fit, ball-winning, dominant central defender to replace Dunne - For me Douglas (couple of million) at Twente looks perfect.

A right back to replace Hutton - I like Lowton but he needs some competition. Lichaj isn't good enough to start a run of games if Lowton is injured.  I have no idea who to go for though.

A left back to replace Warnock - I'd want someone more versatile, and preferably an "older head"; someone towards the end of his career who can cover centrally and maybe in midfield as well would be perfect.

An attacking option who can play right across the field behind a front man to replace Ireland - Gouffran (£750k) seems too good to be true for this one, experienced, 2 footed, can cross, can shoot, runs with the ball well, can play the neat passes, we should get him.

A goalkeeper to replace Given - Guzan is rightly first choice, Given is a very very expensive bench ornament.  Someone with a bit of experience who's willing to come in and wait for a chance.

That would see us set for next year and could probably be achieved for a net outlay for £15m (the 3 I've named would be 6m-ish so 3-4m on each full back and 1-2m on a keeper - Remember Vlaar is a current Dutch international who we picked up for well inside that range).

Nail on the head Paul.  It is glaringly obvious where we are short.